Thread: Q and A with BoN on the phone - Marek

I'm talking about ROI. If you figure out that I haven't put a dime in then the ROI is infinite. I understand what you are trying to say... it doesn't matter w/ the situation I've described.

And please don't ask me to explain ROI...

And yes, if I could take my money and make 3% per day for instance, and I don't mean unlimited and unscaleable, and I went to a couple of friends and told them that I would give them 2%/day why wouldn't I do that? I would tell them there is no guarantee, I would put down the specifics as has been explained to you already in the way Pips was structured, and then I would make 1% off of their money.

Now I'm assuming that you know what all the details are when you go to a bank or any other financial institution to borrow funds?? Lots of financial data is required, personal guarantees, etc., etc. Much easier to just go to my friends and ask them.

I know its much more detailed than that and on a much bigger scale when we are talking about Pips, but the idea is the same. Eventually, and this was brought up many times on the Pips forum, the funds would have to stop coming in and then it would have to become a private program, because eventually you would run out of areas to invest the money and gain that kind of percentage. In many people's estimation, that amount hadn't been reached yet. I, myself, am not so sure about that. I like Bryan. I trust Bryan, but I think he made many mistakes along the way, one of them not managing correctly. Many entrepreneurs are well versed in start-up companies, but once the company is up and running they fail miserably at running it. I think that Bryan fell more into this category... he was brilliant in starting and coming up w/ the Pips idea... but day to day management was more than likely not his forte.

We,more than likely,will continue to disagree and so I will end this here. If you have not looked into trading yourself, then I think it is a good idea to give it a looksee, but since you haven't answered me on this one topic it appears that you do not want to understand. And that is ok too. The beauty of it all is we're free to make that choice.

Good day and good investing...

/shred

Originally Posted by biggfredd

Of course it does. If you take money out of the investment before it matures, you have less money invested, and therefore have to get a higher return on the remaining investment than if the whole amount stayed in the investment until the end. Here's the math at 160% (3.07692307692307692307692307692308 per week), with 10% a week withdrawn (the 2% a day return of the money)

Code:

Investment      Interest   Total        Withdrawal    Week
$10000.00       $307.69    $10307.69    $1000.00      1
  9307.69        286.39      9594.08     1000.00      2 
  8594.08        264.43      8858.51     1000.00      3
  7858.51        241.80      8100.31     1000.00      4 
  7100.31        218.47      7318.78     1000.00      5
  6318.78        194.42      6513.20     1000.00      6
  5513.20        169.64      5682.84     1000.00      7
  4682.84        144.09      4826.93     1000.00      8
  3826.93        117.75      3944.68     1000.00      9
  2944.28         90.59      3034.87     1000.00      10
  2034.87         62.61      2097.48     1000.00      11
  1097.48         33.77      1131.25     1000.00      12

As you can see, after twelve weeks, even at 160% annualized return, the money would have all been returned to the lender, along with all the interest earned. Unless the interest rate is considerably higher than 160%, where would the money come from to pay the remaining 14 weeks?

Even at 320%, the additional interest would be only about another $2300, which still only would cover a couple more weeks of $1000 withdrawals. So the actual interest rate that would have to be earned to cover this sort of deal is much higher than 320%, and no one is going to pay you 320% just to borrow your money when there are much cheaper places to borrow.

First of all your numbers make no sense... You suggest that the initial is withdrawn over the first 10 weeks of the 6 months? And then you suggest that it continues to pay 10% / week? I think you are mixing things up here...

To the member it's like this: He gets 130% + 100% (initial) back over 125 days. If the initial is 100, that would be aprox 1.85 / day. That would make him a 130% profit.

If the company makes 1.85% each day the sum would not decrease. They'd just pay back from their profit instead of from the loan. They would then keep the loanesd sum after the 6 months are over.

How is it possible to make that kind of profit? For example a good margin account and other financial tools. I won't go further into speculations about it.

Originally Posted by biggfredd

I'm sorry, but you've already shown that you aren't familiar with the math involved, so that already discredits you to a certain degree.

As far as poeple helping others become financially independent just to be altruistic, life doesn't work that way. Someone asked Howard Huges how he became fabulously wealthy. His answer was "by making other people very rich". Note well, however, that the process of making them rich was a byproduct of making even more for himself.

For example, if I could show you how to make $100,000, would you give me $5000? Very likely. Now am I doing this because I want you to make $100,000, or because I want to make $5000?

EbAy, for example, is not in existence for sellers to make money. In fact, they couldn't care less if you make a cent, as long as they can sell you a couple cents worth of computer time for $1, $20 or $100.

Actually by your previous posts you have made it quite clear that it is you and not I who do not understand the math. Just look at that last post of yours. (And your need for a "financial calculator" for a simple calculation of percentage )

Your views of "how the world works" are your issues not mine. (like I said)

Yes Ebay is not the same as pips. lol

Sorry man, but this is a waste of my time. Like you, I am less generous than some.

Have a nice day and enjoy your stay

Ah, now I see what you mean by your numbers.

Yes, well, it's not like that... see my previous post on this.

Originally Posted by biggfredd

I'm not mixing anything up. You said the payback is 160%

No I didn't. I said aprox 130%. The 160% was about something you came up with. Go back and read it again if you don't remember.

Originally Posted by biggfredd

The chart shows 2% of the initial investment withdrawn per business day, or 10% per week. This is how the program has been presented.

No, YOU came up with the 10% a week thing as an example.

Originally Posted by biggfredd

I thought we were talking six months. Now you're saying 125 days. Which is it?

Both! Six months equals aprox 125 businessdays.

Originally Posted by biggfredd

Using your latest set of figures, that indeed is a 130% profit, but that still doesn't answer my question: What is the annualized % rate that has to be earned on those funds to provide that profit?

The figures never changed regarding this.
This is the percentage for each individual loan.

If you want to calculate that i suggest you do it for 6 months, not annually just to keep it simple (as each loan expires after 6 months)

Exactly, I don't know, but say they make 130% profit / 6 months the company can keep an amount almost equal to the loan within the pool and that would require a lower minimum return as time passes.

130% percent profit can easily be achived by e.g. applying a good margin account and other things I won't speculate about (as previously mentioned)

Originally Posted by biggfredd

If the company can make 1.85% a day, they would double their money every 40 days. A $10,000 investment would be $10 million in a little over a 13 months. If they can turn $10,000 into $10 million in 13 months, why wouldn't they just borrow $10,000 on a chargecard and pay back $2100 in interest, rather than paying someone back many many times that amount to use their money?

You ask this because you still think it's about greed. I answered this already. If you don't believe it, that's your issue, like I said.

Originally Posted by biggfredd

I know you understand what you're being told by the promoters. What you don't understand is the realities of the marketplace. Even the very top experts make mistakes, and when they do, they lose money just as quickly as they made it. The difference is, when you make $10,000 on a $10,000 investment, you've doubled your money, but when you lose $10,000, you've lost everything, and no amount of doubling what's left ($0) will ever get you back into profitability.

No promotor has told me anything. That's just your presupposition and has nothing to do with reality.

I know that zero * two is nothing lol

If you know your stuff, have big enough bucks, you can play it safe.
Never needing to risk that big. (Big here not meaning a specific number but "everything")

See? We can go on and on forever.

I've already answered most of your questions anyway.