Thread: When "hope" becomes denial

Largo you are right and do not listen anyone that are trying to intimidate you.

Well, so many replies… I am truly grateful. Special thanks to Wilder, Goldeneye, Second Mouse, Largo, Hawk, Leftyken, Rich333, Pele10, Weathernut, Spongebob. You do me a great honour. Predictable, yes, but still unexpected: Thank you, thank you for illustrating some of my points so well. I couldn’t have planned it better if I had tried. The self-appointed judge-and-jury truth squad came out in force. Well done!

For honestly voicing my opinion, you have all hurled either insults, put downs, disapproval, thinly disguised cuss words, cold shoulders, false accusations (trying to steal your hope – methinks somebody doth protest too much!) other forms of intolerance and more at me. Some of you obviously would like to provoke me. Nothing to say, do I? I say this: I am untouched, the universe will take care of you!

I said I wouldn’t come back here to try to help people in denial, and I won’t. So, on to another subject! Let’s call it, “Petty Tyrants Will Fall,” as in the immortal words of Jimmy Cliff: the harder they come, the harder they fall, one and all.

Hi carumba!

First, please allow me to digress. (Warning, if you do not like longish posts, stop here! Also, warning: this post contains opinions contrary to the above mentioned members; proceed with caution!) Seriously, folks, I am not a person without hope, lost in hopelessness, a lost soul or anything like that. I did not “lose faith” in PIPS, nor did I have to, because I never had any.

That is because when a friend came to my house in early July 2005 to try to entice my partner into investing in PIPS, I saw through it in less than 15 minutes (although he went on to talk for over two hours – so excuse me for taking 5-10 minutes of your time) even though I had never heard of it and was unaware of the explosion of HYIPs on the internet. Had I not been there, I am fairly sure my partner, who is not so worldly and blissfully unaware of the presence of much of the deceit in the world (bless her!), would have. That is because she made the simple mistake somany do: she began right away thinking “what she would do with the money” and forgetting about how it was explained she would get it. To me it seemed like a fairly straight forward pyramid-ponzi scheme where new members’ money goes to pay off earlier investors, except with a fancy computer program to make people they had “accounts” piling up unrealistic amounts of interest. We said no, and frankly it was not really a surprise when the plug got pulled in mid-August.

So I never invested in PIPS and didn’t lose any money. I am sure many will say that gives me no right to post here! Oh really? The reason I am here is because I did then go on the internet to do some research for my partners’ sake and that is how I discovered Talkgold and other forums and later RolClub. (Frankly, y’all shouldn’t worry about Talkgold no more; the PIPS file is going dormant, they have moved on to fry other fish. Talkgold, including its many ironies/hypocracies is about much more than just PIPS; and yes, I do believe that such forums had a helping hand in the demise of PIPS, along with a small minority of disgruntled investors who went to the authorities to complain; people at Talkgold do operate without a lot of facts but a lot of them firmly believe that it is important to wage a psychological war )

OK back to my point, why am I here? Among other reasons, I do not like to see people conned or manipulated or robbed or victimized, and so I am doing something about it. I am speaking out. If I am spoiling your party, sorry, I will take full responsibility for that. But frankly, I care about loved ones like my partner who I will protect, and our poor friend, who was hopelessly lost in the many myths of PIPS, including those about its problems. And frankly, I have felt a growing, gnawing sense of sympathy for many of those on these forums who are hurting from this experience.

I am NOT here to debate PIPS. If people still believe in it, fine. They want to have hope, no problem. And I agree: there is NO PROOF, and so there is still a chance Bryan Marsden will be found to be an innocent man. Frankly that would not bother me and I would then admit my mistake, cheer him as an underdog and cheer you all on your insight and richness. The image of Bryan or his “vision” after all, is perhaps a very beautiful thing, even more so if it were true. I just don’t see it happening that way. As I said before, it’s an old story repeated many times by many a beguiler. However, it is NOT true that there are NO FACTs; there are plenty (like no payments for over a year and no adequate communication, bank seizing computers and freezing bank accounts) and do not seem very optimistic. There is also plenty of “anecdotal evidence” that things are very serious, that BM will face serious jail time, that there is only 12 million dollars left and hundreds of millions in debt, etc. Some would call it “unsubstantiated heresay” and I would be the first to agree. But this is not a court of law, although some of the above mentioned seem to treat it that way.

I, for one, believe it is OK to form opinions and, yes, draw conclusions, if only for myself, not only from facts and what people say, but from behavior and the way things “look.” I don’t think it is a crime, and yes, it can be imperfect and erroneous at times. I believe if you only judge people on what they say and not also on what they do, and how they do it, the look in their eyes and even what they don’t say, then you could be missing something. And yes, also on what other people say, but to this I delegate a low rank. If I do this, in this forum it is indeed just an opinion, but for me it can form part of “my truth” and affect my life. And, yes, I agree everyone, everywhere, is good inside or at least starts out that way (on the human level anyway) and should be given the benefit of the doubt, but only to a point if “facts” begin to indicate otherwise. Learning this has for me been a trial and error process, believe me!

Going back to our poor friend who, I was told, invested all of his half of the settlement he got in his divorce into PIPS, and was sure he would be travelling the world carefree for the rest of his life (a truly beautiful dream), frankly just the WAY he told my partner in an e-mail that he “knew about an investment opportunity that is so great but can’t talk about it in an email” – I knew something was fishy. That is why I insisted on being present at the meeting. But I still listened patiently for two hours and only objected a few times (and not until the second hour) before I could see he was a true believer and there was nothing I could do. I asked him to come back and talk about PIPS in six months, but after August he never answered back.

So, again, drawing a conclusion based on observing behaviour and my own past experience, both personal and of observing the world, I made a decision, as is my own personal right. For me, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and flies like a duck, I don’t need for it to come up to me and say, “I am a duck.” And if it did come up to me and say, “Hey you, I am not a duck!” I am sorry I still wouldn’t believe it (though I have to admit I’d be pretty disturbed!)

One more thing regarding PIPS, though: many say, “I got paid so I have no problem with it.” That is also fine. Please be honest, though, and admit that you profit from other people’s loss, that playing in an HYIP is a crap-shoot, a high stakes gamble where there are winners, the ones who get in early while the gittin is good, and losers, some suspecting and others unsuspecting. And just one other little detail, ponzis are illegal, to operate, promote and knowingly participate in. So if you are saying, “I got paid”, please add the truth, “and I believe breaking the law is OK if I profit from it.” (PIPS may not be found guilty of anything, so this analysis may or may not apply; you be the judge)

No, what I am really here to talk about is about the conduct of this forum. Do you want a forum for people to come and find out information on PIPS, or do you want only a “positive support club” that stifles all dissent, angst, negative emotions and bad news? Should people be able to come here, ask provocative questions about where is their investment and why don’t the explanations given add up, or post information like cease and desist orders, internal memos from diplomatic or law enforcement, etc., in an effort to find out what is going on? Or should they be forced to only accept what BM says as truth and shun everything else? If he is charged with a crime, do you expect he will come and tell you? Will you accept the word of a prosecutor, newspaper or other “unsubstantiated” source?

It is CERTAINLY not for me to decide or recommend what you do with this forum. As it pointed out, I am very new, and, god forbid! I am not even a member of PIPS; It is for the administration and the entire membership, and perhaps not just a group of self-appointed jeer-leaders who speak of optimism and respect but can scarcely hide (those that even try) the hate and intolerance just underneath the surface for anyone who does not share their approach to PIPS.

I AM truly sorry that folks lost money, or might, or whatever. It is a shame. That you probably won’t receive millions and billions for your investments, I am less concerned about. But, I don’t want to stir people up or be negative for negativity’s sake. Or dash hopes. Or “stir people up.” Everyone has to come to their own conclusions. If you have read all this way and hate me and/or my post, well, at least I warned you! You didn’t have to read it. If my post prompts someone to be even more positive, more hopeful about PIPS, then good! I agree, hope and patience are good (to a point). And like you, I, too, await further "facts" before closing the book on PIPS.

For those few who supported the last post, thanks, though I am not trying to earn or score points. Still (and you know who you are) it is appreciated. For those who just honestly disagree, I hear you and accept it. And, please accept this: I disagree with you. So, we are even. But please, if PIPS does go down, I hope no one will “lose faith in humanity” or worse, and honestly for some it could be a real crisis. Just remember there is so much more to life, etc; well you know the rest.

I warned against false hope, against denial, and previously advocated acceptance and humility. Now I predict the petty tyrants will fall.

Keep the faith! I am thankful and grateful to PIPS, Bryan Marsden, Rolclub, its members and moderators for creating this opportunity to express myself.

Good bye!

Originally Posted by sopranos

No SM, I see people that can't post any negatives that may interfere with others hopes and dreams. In other words they are attacked for having a diffrent opinion. I'm sorry, I see only their opinion. Whether I agree with it or not dosn't matter. Its only someone elses opinion and I didn't see anyone harmed by it.Respond to it. Have a discussion about it.Shut your computer off if you can't deal with it. Whatever. But do it with kindness and respect please.

we are both advocating the same thing here... look at my reply to soulsurfer (#4)

but again.... it bears repeating, ... soulsurfers post goes beyond being negative...it is not respectful, it is condesending and insulting.... he began this thread.... don't defend him from the backlash...... you said it yourself... "But do it with kindness and respect please" ... and he didn't!
unless what you're saying is, he can post disrespectfully, but others may not respond in kind?

and I'd still like to know the real motive behind the post? there is no good motive... it appears he intended it to be unkind....

the disrespect in this thread started with post #1.

SoulSurfer, you had nice long letter and we do appriciate your point of view.

Taking in concern that you were just exploring Pips and not being a part of it,
I do understand how you come with your opinion even so you are totally wrong with you analogy.

See, you need to understand that many of us are part of Bryan's life even before Pips was born. We know much more than anyone like you, by just searching internet and getting conclusion of its finding.

Deep in my heart I know same as many others, that Bryan will fulfill started dream for us. You can't feel or see that and you will never understand, since is never written any place. You have to experience that. You got that?

So, one thing I can tell you Bryan will show you wrong.

It is just matter of time that he needs to finalize his work.

Originally Posted by SoulSurfer

Hi carumba!

wow!! who was that masked man?.... apparently he has tired himself out trying to save us all from ourselves (thank you God!)

we should all feel greatly indebted to him.....
(how's the sarcasm working for me? He seemed to think it would work)

'They say that the more a person learns, the more they find there is to learn. Therefore the smarter you think you are, the dumber you really are.'
boy.... do I feel dumb... there's no hope for me....

Is he gone? Did he leave for good? Soulsurfer needs a hobby away from this forum.

I for one am very tired of all the empty promises and SoulSurfer has tweaked my interest. I come to this site once in a while to see what's going on and of course I always hope that PIPS will be revived. I only say this as I have never received any funds out of it and took a huge gamble and put a significant amount of money into it.

This was my first try at lending money in this fashion and I've now learned my lesson and will work with real life stuff from now on.

I may even try to go after the people which I gave my funds to for PicPay. It seems that I have just as much of a shot at getting that money back as I have in PIPS coming back.

I've lost hope and will try, somehow, to recover from this.

I wish everyone well, but I have to say that I completely agree with SoulSurfer.

Cheers,

you can tell he knows a lot.... by the length of his posts!
but I'm not convinced of his wisdom....

'Knowledge comes by taking things apart: analysis. But wisdom comes by putting things together.'

I get the feeling he's much better at taking things apart, than he is at putting, or keeping, things together....

just mho.

Newlife, thank you for your response. I do apologize for the long posts.

I acknowlege your much deeper experience with Bryan. You have looked into his eyes (yes?) and have traveled a long way with him. That counts for a lot.

As I said, if he proves me wrong, I will gladly admit it and cheer him as the "one who defied all the odds." As I also said, the dream that has been portrayed as his is a wonderful vision. And I will add that I respect anyone who believes in that vision. Nor would any failure on the part of BM or PIPS take away anything from them.

I am an outsider looking in. Perhaps that could make me more objective but it also makes me farther from the truth. You are right.

For you, a short post! With no 'buts' at all (well one).

Luckydog, sorry to disappoint, but I'll never be far away, even if they ban me. You seem to like to have fun with others while you pass the time in here -- a noble pastime, to cheer up the worriers/warriors -- so if you throw me a bone I'll fetch and bring it back. Hee hee. I am like Cicero's hound, scratching at the golden door and making some dust. Woof!