Thread: Pips-(BM)-Trial Starts 13th of september.

Originally Posted by Owen Platt

I rather doubt that - there was no money left. The only ones getting paid were, as in all Ponzis, the early investors. Most received nothing after December 2004, other than few token payments.

Don't forget the ones who took money from friends and relatives in return for worthless ROL accounts, i e numbers on a screen,
I havent heard of any of these people giving back the money they so wrongley took.

Yellowman,

You make a good point. My parents joined Pips a while after we did. They paid with their own card, but later decided to put in a bit more, at a time when credit card payments weren't being allowed, so she gave me the money and I put it in from my own ROL.

There is an unwritten rule now that Pips is not mentioned! Fortunately she does not blame me for investing. Sensibly she treated it as a gamble, albeit a fairly expensive one, and used only spare money.

It is those who went about promoting Pips openly that have more music to face. Family will always forgive. Friends usually will too (true friends at least). It is the rest they have to worry about, perhaps from a legal point of view as well.

I too introduced family members and a few friends.Never again.I listened to (and believed) the never ending "new bank" and "payments soon" BS.Picpay was considered good as cash being backed by gold.Like many pips supporters, I got caught.

For me introductions are no longer an option.They create to many problems.

Originally Posted by Dreamer

I too introduced family members and a few friends.Never again.I listened to (and believed) the never ending "new bank" and "payments soon" BS.Picpay was considered good as cash being backed by gold.Like many pips supporters, I got caught.

For me introductions are no longer an option.They create to many problems.

More like a lot of hot air and lots of crap! (I meant PicPay is a load of crap!)
I couldn't agree with you more Dreamer.

theBat$

Originally Posted by thebat$

More like a lot of hot air and lots of crap!

theBat$

Amazing how so many people still believe the BS

I think the posts in this thread proves my point. Everybody are upset (and rightly so) because they never got any money back. But that is not what this trial is about. Despite lengthy investigations BNM never found anything conspicious about the pips business itself.

Owen Platt are telling everyone who want to listen "didn't I tell you he was a scam", but this is not, I repeat not, questioned by the court in Malaysia. To me that really proves the contrary, that pips was indeed both lawful and in good faith.

The problem with pips - and there sure are some - is that Mr BM took the money laundering issue to lightly and never set up a water-tight-bullet-proof system to check where investors where coming from.

As I tried to say in my earlier post it is very easy both to charge and prove money laundering. With such bad follow-up of investor money I would not be surprised if they can find several hundreds of questionable sources. The thing is that that is all BNM came up with. And I truly believe that the money laundering is more a proof of bad management and neglectance than bad intent.

As far as Owen's charges regarding transfer of means to private accounts I don't believe that is on trial either. Where do you have that information, Owen? I certainly hope that is public information and not hearsay.

This will be interesting to follow.

/Hakius

Hakius,

Where exactly are your sources saying that "Despite lengthy investigations BNM never found anything conspicious about the pips business itself."?

I've not seen any statements saying that they have finished investigating and that they will not press further charges, have you?

The money laundering charges are not, I believe, implying that bad money was bought into the system, more that good money was bought in, and made bad, i.e. the unlawful activities specified are the operations of Pips.

The charges relate to transfers from New Mark Business centres to the Marsden's private accounts. There is no mention of Pips in the charges and as, I have pointed out, time and time again, Bank Negara are still investigating.
There is no suggestion that any money transferred into Pips was in any way tainted. As Nej says, the unlawful transactions were in the transfer of funds into the Marsden's personal accounts, strange since there seems to have been so much difficulty in transferring funds to the members.
And where on earth you got the idea that Bank Negara have found nothing amiss, I can't imagine. Clearly they are still investigating, as witness the request for Australian Pipsters to come forward.

It is hard for me to believe that BNM would go to court before their investigations are done. That's just not the way you do it. It is a serial process, first investigation, then pressing charges. On the other hand may further investigations be conducted as a result of the court proceedings. But BNM has obviously not found anything themselves apart from money laundering.

As far as the definition of money laundering is concerned it is clearly that you receive tainted money, clean it in the system and return it pressed and starched. I have never heard of a laundry that accepts clean clothes and stain them dirty inhouse. The crimes you describe, transferring company money to private accounts, would clearly be a violation of law but hardly money laundering.

The way I see it is that the laundering charges are easiest to prove, and therefore a good starting point whilst they continue with the investigation. There is nothing to stop them adding fraud charges later on. As I said once before though, if they can get a suitable conviction that serves justice sufficiently on the easier-to-prove charges then that might satisfy them and save them the expense of a longer fraud trial.

Anyway, time will tell. I hope you are right and that everything BM said is revealed to be irrefutably true. I have as much to gain or lose as many people and would love to see everything go BM's way. If that happened I would sink to my knees and apologise for doubting him. But I can't see that happening now.