Thread: Isx

Originally Posted by 40plus

I take issue with your statement about the Iraqis being 'less than clueless'.

The Iraqis are in fact known to be well educated, intelligent, fiercely proud and productive. Problem is, they were stuck with a murderous dictator who pretty much shut them dowm, except for profiting himself. The people had no choice but to do Saddam's will or die.

Now, they have a chance to regain their original status, but after so many years of decimation, it will take time to put things together. You're an attorney...how long does it you take to prepare one maajor case for court and take it through to it's completion? Two years, three years?

Compare this with trying to re-establish a government, stop violence, rebuild structures, restore economic order, etc...all with several factions wanting to protect their interests. This is a monumental task and I feel the Iraqis have been doing very well to get to where they are in so short a time.

I am eagerly anticpating an RV, and occasionally get impatient with the pace that the new government is taking, but this does not make me consider them an ignorant, or 'clueless' people. The fact that they are hashing out all this to the degree they are tells me they are very careful in protecting their future...to translate a desire for a quick rv into a false judgement of the people going through terrible ordeal is non-productive.

I feel the Iraqis should be praised for their efforts, encouraged to accelerate their attainment of solid resolutions and in the future,I believe we will see that these people may once again rise up to be an honorable and prosperous nation.

No offense, 'wiz, just felt that your above post (and some others lately) did not reflect the kind of intelligent thinking I had read from you in the past.

Interesting,

Although many are showing frustration with the Iraqi parliament, as I am, there are obvious problems due to the fact that more than half of parliament are close to illiterate, at least in terms of the minister postions they were awarded. Yes, awarded, that is how the Iraq gov operates, not on an earned basis, but on an awarded basis, and here in lies the problem, so yes, most don't have a clue about the responsibilites they are in power over, and this is in fact the real problem.

As to the Iraqi people as a whole, 70% are illiterate, and many of the educated have left Iraq a long time ago, or were chased out by Saddam, so sorry to disagree, but there is a severe shortage of educated people to put into these positions of ministers and cabinet. Why do you think Maliki is eliminating many of these cabinet postions, there are few who would qualify on knowledge, experience and commitment to fill all these positions. What we see instead is poor attendence, excuses, corruption, traders and terrorists who were given these positions based on sectarian affiliation, not on what they should have been assigned on, education.

Most of these positions are held by non educated people, as in, no college, no experience, etc. It is a joke, and we have all seen the results to date, the joke has been on us to think that new government was formed on logics, not sectarian divide, so again, sorry, we are seeing the results of sectarian divides and the negative impact on government which will take a long time to correct, hence, one delay after another. Heck, they can't agree on when to take a shiite when parliament meets, so until they dump half of these uneducated duds, we won't see faster progress. Heck, how long have been reading about reshuffle? Over a year, and still only hints of it being started, never mind completed. Pretty pathetic to this point, and totally unexpected it was as bad as it is, so here we are, still waiting, and now you know why.

Good luck and health to all, Mike

I got to agree with you totally Mike....all we have gotten from this government is delay,after delay,after delay....and as you stated I have been hearing about reshuffling the government for over a year...and still nothing done....most are on the "TAKE" so they don't want to pass these laws in the first place...might cut into their "STASHE" as one would say....but i think their time is running short...the American people are tired of these delay tactics and games that they play....they[Iraqi government ]are running out of time.....IMHO...Pat

Originally Posted by Offshore-Wealth.com

Interesting,

Although many are showing frustration with the Iraqi parliament, as I am, there are obvious problems due to the fact that more than half of parliament are close to illiterate, at least in terms of the minister postions they were awarded. Yes, awarded, that is how the Iraq gov operates, not on an earned basis, but on an awarded basis, and here in lies the problem, so yes, most don't have a clue about the responsibilites they are in power over, and this is in fact the real problem.

As to the Iraqi people as a whole, 70% are illiterate, and many of the educated have left Iraq a long time ago, or were chased out by Saddam, so sorry to disagree, but there is a severe shortage of educated people to put into these positions of ministers and cabinet. Why do you think Maliki is eliminating many of these cabinet postions, there are few who would qualify on knowledge, experience and commitment to fill all these positions. What we see instead is poor attendence, excuses, corruption, traders and terrorists who were given these positions based on sectarian affiliation, not on what they should have been assigned on, education.

Most of these positions are held by non educated people, as in, no college, no experience, etc. It is a joke, and we have all seen the results to date, the joke has been on us to think that new government was formed on logics, not sectarian divide, so again, sorry, we are seeing the results of sectarian divides and the negative impact on government which will take a long time to correct, hence, one delay after another. Heck, they can't agree on when to take a shiite when parliament meets, so until they dump half of these uneducated duds, we won't see faster progress. Heck, how long have been reading about reshuffle? Over a year, and still only hints of it being started, never mind completed. Pretty pathetic to this point, and totally unexpected it was as bad as it is, so here we are, still waiting, and now you know why.

Good luck and health to all, Mike

Slam dunk, hit the Bull's Eye, straight to the heart of the matter. Good post Mike.

Regards,

Thelema

Falah Chanchal : the oil and gas economic occupationLuna / July 18 / BAGHDAD / A deputy in the parliament of the bloc Chest Falah Hassan Chanchal, that the Bloc members will return to officially today, Wednesday, the House hearings. He added Chanchal said in a press statement yesterday evening that the bloc deputies Chest finished suspend their memberships in the parliament and will return today to discuss the laws and decisions of the Council. On the other hand, counting Attorney Chanchal oil and gas law, which drafted presented to the House of Representatives "occupation economically," stressing that the bloc, which belongs to my many negative points in the law and will stand by its approval, noting in this regard that legislation this formula will lead to economic occupation, as he put it. Deputies had chest bloc had announced their boycott meetings of the House a few weeks ago, after the second bombing protracted military Memente Imams in Samarra / / completed / u p / b p / of the parliament.

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Originally Posted by Offshore-Wealth.com

Interesting,

Although many are showing frustration with the Iraqi parliament, as I am, there are obvious problems due to the fact that more than half of parliament are close to illiterate, at least in terms of the minister postions they were awarded. Yes, awarded, that is how the Iraq gov operates, not on an earned basis, but on an awarded basis, and here in lies the problem, so yes, most don't have a clue about the responsibilites they are in power over, and this is in fact the real problem.

As to the Iraqi people as a whole, 70% are illiterate, and many of the educated have left Iraq a long time ago, or were chased out by Saddam, so sorry to disagree, but there is a severe shortage of educated people to put into these positions of ministers and cabinet. Why do you think Maliki is eliminating many of these cabinet postions, there are few who would qualify on knowledge, experience and commitment to fill all these positions. What we see instead is poor attendence, excuses, corruption, traders and terrorists who were given these positions based on sectarian affiliation, not on what they should have been assigned on, education.

Most of these positions are held by non educated people, as in, no college, no experience, etc. It is a joke, and we have all seen the results to date, the joke has been on us to think that new government was formed on logics, not sectarian divide, so again, sorry, we are seeing the results of sectarian divides and the negative impact on government which will take a long time to correct, hence, one delay after another. Heck, they can't agree on when to take a shiite when parliament meets, so until they dump half of these uneducated duds, we won't see faster progress. Heck, how long have been reading about reshuffle? Over a year, and still only hints of it being started, never mind completed. Pretty pathetic to this point, and totally unexpected it was as bad as it is, so here we are, still waiting, and now you know why.

Good luck and health to all, Mike

Wow. I couldn't disagree with you more. The information you provide here is wrong. Iraq was the highest Middle Eastern Nation in literacy and education before Saddam and even during the first decade of Saddam's reign. They had a fairly evolved educational system for a Middle Eastern Nation. True the last couple decades of Saddam's terror reign impacted them greatly in this area. They dropped to the lower rung of literacy/education and moderate states (such as Jordan, Egypt, Kuwait, etc) soared above them. But even today they have an overall literacy rate of around 70% and it's higher for males. I'll try to find the data/link, but that's what I came across in my research efforts. Now I'm not saying all their politicians are Harvard Master's degree type levels, but they are smart people with a decent level of education. In fact this is one reason there is a VERY good chance this liberation will succeed. I do agree that as far as governing they severly lack experience. This is brand new to them, thus patience is critical. Think of an analogy of a woman who has been severly beaten and abused for 35 years (of the worst type imaginable). Would we really expect complete recovery from her in just 5 short years? Give them some time and some patience even if we all do feel the frustration. We live like Kings here, let's keep it in perspective.

Originally Posted by MunnyBaggs

Wow. I couldn't disagree with you more. The information you provide here is wrong. Iraq was the highest Middle Eastern Nation in literacy and education before Saddam and even during the first decade of Saddam's reign. They had a fairly evolved educational system for a Middle Eastern Nation. True the last couple decades of Saddam's terror reign impacted them greatly in this area. They dropped to the lower rung of literacy/education and moderate states (such as Jordan, Egypt, Kuwait, etc) soared above them. But even today they have an overall literacy rate of around 70% and it's higher for males. I'll try to find the data/link, but that's what I came across in my research efforts. Now I'm not saying all their politicians are Harvard Master's degree type levels, but they are smart people with a decent level of education. In fact this is one reason there is a VERY good chance this liberation will succeed. I do agree that as far as governing they severly lack experience. This is brand new to them, thus patience is critical. Think of an analogy of a woman who has been severly beaten and abused for 35 years (of the worst type imaginable). Would we really expect complete recovery from her in just 5 short years? Give them some time and some patience even if we all do feel the frustration. We live like Kings here, let's keep it in perspective.

Beautifully said, thank you. I needed that.

Correction,

Thanks munnybaggs, had mistakenly reversed 70% from stat report, you are correct about historical Iraq, but the cabinet demonstrates the reverse. Had to redig into history files.

Good luck and health to all, Mike

Originally Posted by MunnyBaggs

Wow. I couldn't disagree with you more. The information you provide here is wrong. Iraq was the highest Middle Eastern Nation in literacy and education before Saddam and even during the first decade of Saddam's reign. They had a fairly evolved educational system for a Middle Eastern Nation. True the last couple decades of Saddam's terror reign impacted them greatly in this area. They dropped to the lower rung of literacy/education and moderate states (such as Jordan, Egypt, Kuwait, etc) soared above them. But even today they have an overall literacy rate of around 70% and it's higher for males. I'll try to find the data/link, but that's what I came across in my research efforts. Now I'm not saying all their politicians are Harvard Master's degree type levels, but they are smart people with a decent level of education. In fact this is one reason there is a VERY good chance this liberation will succeed. I do agree that as far as governing they severly lack experience. This is brand new to them, thus patience is critical. Think of an analogy of a woman who has been severly beaten and abused for 35 years (of the worst type imaginable). Would we really expect complete recovery from her in just 5 short years? Give them some time and some patience even if we all do feel the frustration. We live like Kings here, let's keep it in perspective.

Super post Munny! I would add only one thing. Many of the educated middle class, the very ones needed to step in at this time to take the reigns of power and run the industrial enterprizes, have fled during Sadams reign and since. So the country will need time to heal and time to rebuild. Our own govern. hasn't done things with the greatest of speed and efficency if one looks at history. We will not see positive changes happen according to our wishes or time fame. It will take a while.

Ice

i heard, from the BBC, that an embargo was lifted from iraq.... can anyone confirm this?!?!

hunter

Embargo on what MH?