Thread: 'the truth shall set you free.' Jn 8:32

With respect there is nothing modern about "my" understanding of "Amen." The understanding that is globally accepted by Christians and JWs alike has no bearing on any Egyptian deity; it is as old as time itself and predates "Ammon" by eternity. (These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; REV 3:14) It would be pharasitical to think otherwise. God who is supreme above all things sees all knows the heart of the one who prays.

May I say with assurance that anyone who does not want to be saved, won’t be. God is polite and respects the wishes of the individual. The individual has exercised their freedom, and ultimately responsible for the consequences of their own action. The implications of being unsaved are unthinkable.

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With reference to "new age" beliefs and doctrine. I offer the following compilation from my research. Hopefully it describes truthfully what the new age movement is about, and where a Gnostic view has its limitation. It is very diverse, and because of its diversity, each new age person can hold a different view, and so at the same time both be correct and incorrect, and therefore agree and disagree with what I write below. If that is confusing: Read on, it gets more so….. (At the start I must emphasize that I in no way associate myself or agree with the new age movement). I have tried to present this objectively.

New age spirituality is a personal search for spiritual tools to overcome hurt and realise individual hope. Its theme is about empowerment to live in the ordinary world by awakening spirituality. It is done by sampling a range of spiritual ideas and disciplines and includes ideas such as angels, astrology, clairvoyance, mind powers, rebirthing, reincarnation, spirit guides, tarot to name a few.

New age spirituality has two basic areas. The first draws on Hindu-Buddhist ideas about oneness with reality. Reality is a bit like a lake. A person is like a drop of water with individual consciousness, when the drops come together it forms a lake. So if all reality is one, it is a small step to saying that we are all God. But here God is not a personal being distinct from creation, but an impersonal force permeating everything. Empowerment to live happens when we tap into our "higher self" or inner divinity. Various spiritual tools are used to waken this consciousness.

The second area of new age spirituality is aligned with Gnosticism. There is secret, mystical knowledge for the empowerment to live. It identifies with mystery religions, guardian angels and spirit guides etc.

Those who embrace new age ideals, use as much or as little as they need for their own beliefs, requirement and comfort.

New agers consider that we are on the threshold of "the Aquarian Age" where universal love and harmony will reign. They consider that modern rationalist, scientific explanations of reality are inadequate, and that we have suppressed our spiritual self. Truth is not a matter of dry, rationalist propositions but truth is whatever you discover works for you. In a global village of diverse cultures and beliefs, new age seekers celebrate the unity of humanity.

New age people are convinced that there is a spiritual dimension to life. Like Christians they agree that science and technology cannot fully answer the questions about the meaning of life. Most are biblically illiterate but allude to biblical scripture. Many feel Jesus is an important spiritual teacher and are willing to find out more about Him. Their main problem is not Jesus himself, but the institution of the Church.

Many of their ideas for a better world are found in the prophets’ vision of the new heaven and new earth (Isiah.65: 17-25; 2 Peter. 3:13, Revalation.21). When the kingdom of God comes, Jesus will ultimately fulfil what new age looks to.

Is it possible to link astrology with Jesus? Is it possible to share how at the birth of Jesus, the Magi, (who were astrologers), followed a star and came to the one who made the universe. When the Magi found Jesus they did not opt for horoscopes, they gave themselves to him in adoration. Astrology tries to explain your personality from the moment of your birth. The astrologer goes to the metaphorical "rocks" of the universe to find meaning! Christians go directly to the One who made the rocks. Why settle for second best when you can go directly to the Manufacturer?

There is great weakness in new age concepts. EG. By using the power of the mind it is claimed that we all create our own reality. That is, whatever we think comes into reality. If you choose successful thoughts, you will be successful. If you think negatively, then you choose to be a "victim". This is a very self-centred and supports the powerful and does nothing for the powerless. Jesus offers the model of servanthood. From Jesus' resurrection we see how God values the entire person. Jesus' calls us to live out tough values by caring for the powerless.

The New Age movement has no external source for authority. They have an internal one (the god within). The individual is the standard of truth, saying that "truth as an objective reality simply does not exist"

New Agers confuse the Creator with God's creation and think that "God" (whoever he, she, it, is) is part of creation, not separate from it. They borrow monism from Eastern religions, "all is One." There is only one essence in the universe, everyone and everything is part of that essence. Everything is a different form of that essence

There is the "Christ Consciousness" which is an office rather than an individual. This idea of "Christ Consciousness" asserts that Jesus was not the only Christ, but that He equipped Himself to receive the "Christ Consciousness" (He was a great "spiritual master" who attained Christ Consciousness), as supposedly also did Buddha, Krishna, and Mohammed etc.

There is no place for "sin" in new ageism, because there is no "God" as such to rebel against. There are no rules or absolute moral imperatives. Instead there is a "New Thought" view of sin, which knows nothing of a representative man (Adam) by whose sin EVERYONE has sinned (hence the need for being saved). Nor does the "New Thought" concept teach that there is any original sin. It considers that man's true essence is divine and perfect. It finds nothing in the nature of sin but speaks of "troublesome desires" which are natural human impulses that direct people from consciousness to their identity with God, and are therefore troublesome but hardly sinful.

There is no need for salvation since the world depends upon the "inner god" or mankind. When enough people "harmonize" their "positive energy" and concentrate on peace, the world will be cleansed of negativity. New Age ideals will be realized together with spiritual enlightenment. Humanity is intrinsically divine and perfect, we are currently ignorant of that!!!

New agers that are more deeply into their belief do not hold the traditional view of Lucifer as the devil or Satan; it is removed from New Age beliefs. Alice Bailey, a leading writer in the New Age Movement describes him as a mighty being of light (Lucifer means "light" or "angel of light") and the "Ruler of Humanity." Benjamin Creme, a leading lecturer of the New Age, says, "Lucifer came from the planet Venus 18.5 million years ago; he's the director of our planetary evolution, he is the sacrificial lamb, and the prodigal son. Lucifer made an incredible sacrifice, a supreme sacrifice for our planet." (Shouldn’t this kind of thought show a free thinker some form of warning sign).

New Agers believe in the Eastern concept of reincarnation; through a process of rebirths, man eventually reaches spiritual perfection. They often place animal rights above human rights, because many believe animals are reincarnated souls. They teach the Hindu principle of "karma," a person reaps in the next life what they sow in this one. Reincarnation leads to believing in the power of "spirit guides" or "channels" to allow spirits from another dimension to speak through their bodies. This allows for three errors 1: There is no death. 2: man is god. 3: knowledge of self is salvation and power. New Agers misrepresent church history and the doctrines of Christianity and twist Christian scripture to support the idea that original Christianity taught reincarnation and; they argue that the early church suppressed the doctrine and censored its teaching.

The New Age Movement is a revival of ancient, divergent, religious traditions and practices. It is squarely centred in Satan’s lie (Genesis 3:1-5), and echoes through the movement's historical expressions. Satan questions God's word, His authority and benevolent rule (Gen 3:1), he disputes that death results from disobedience (Gen 3:4), and claims that through the acquisition of secret or Gnostic wisdom mankind will be enlightened and can be "like God" (Gen 3:5).

Occult practices and beliefs revived by new agers have been part of early pagan cultures. Witchcraft/sorcery, spiritism, divination, (clairvoyance; seeing the future), necromancy (consulting the dead), and astrology, are practices that are clearly and strongly forbidden by Scripture (Deuteronomy 18: 9-17; Isaiah 47: 9-15).

These and other occult practices were spread through the ancient magic (magick) and mystery religions of the Chaldeans, Egyptians, and the Assyrian-Babylonian culture. Noting the scope of its continuing presence, the Bible informs Christians of Babylon's “destiny” implications. Satan's lie (Genesis 3) is developed in Babylon (Isaiah 47) and continues to its ultimate state of development, revealed as Satan's one-world system at the end of the age (Revelation 17-18).

Christians can demonstrate that the Bible does NOT teach reincarnation. When Jesus calls John the Baptist "Elijah," He is speaking metaphorically. Luke 1:17 demonstrates that John was filling the office of Elijah, and executing the prophecy of Malachi 4:5-6. Elijah was seen with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration in Matthew 17:1-3. The meaning of the resurrection is the opposite of reincarnation (Hebrews 9:27; 1 Cor. 15:12-28). If God is an impersonal force, then love and forgiveness are not possible. They are personal attributes as opposed to impersonal law of karma. Intercessory prayer is absolutely necessary. The battle for souls is won through God's grace, intervening and drawing them to Himself.

Christianity takes sin and guilt seriously, the new age does not, its like missing the bull’s eye. There is no other satisfaction for self than the need to respond to the Cross of Christ in repentance and faith. By living the Christian life through the Spirit of Jesus we have a superior model that the new age cannot offer. Real empowerment to live comes only through Jesus. We must also apply the wisdom of Scripture to today’s issues.

If you have got this far, thank you for reading.

very good you must have a lot of time Im glad you typed that out.I have something to add but I have to gather the material(pictures).
just an added note the magi used the prophecys of balaam who was sent to curse isreal but could only bless them,to find the star that guided them to Bethlehem.

Hi Peace

I research in literally hundreds of places to understand my own faith, and for things like this I draw on them and make (as stated) a compilation and then (believe it or not ) condense. On and off the last post took nearly two days to prepare, along with all the other things I had to do. I see it as part of the witness for my faith. I am enjoying the dialogue with all who are contributing. I am thankful to the moderators who are allowing this thread to continue it in the spirit of debate. I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me, but thats why we debate isn't it. I wouldn't (or couldn't) talk this way in just any thread, it wouldn't be fair. And it is good that we are all being courteous.

To Denim and all interested parties;

Proverbs 27:17 states - " By Iron, iron itself is sharpened. So one man sharpens the face of another." Allow me time to respond; but sorry - it will be a long one.

Sincerly yours;
Kimlyn

http://www.rolclub.com/showthread.php?p=35763#post35763

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever." Hebrews13:8

Originally Posted by frode

I dont understand why you all from america must quote with God and the bibel every time you want to talk about PIPS. Earning money and reading the bible is two different things. I hope you all can discuss PIPS in the future without mixing it with the bible
best regards
ps I also believe in God, but I dont mix it with PIPS. Have a nice day and future

frode - Norway

I would just like to add to the above by Frode. What has this 'discussion' got to do with the PIPS program? Denim I personally find your opinions bigoted, and offensive - you may have guessed that I am a non-christian. By the way that does not make me any less good than you, and neither do I need saving. Why do all Christians believe that any other religion or belief has to be the work of the Devil. You believe that all new agers are misguided and don't know the truth (as you see it), I believe that you are all brainwashed by an organisation set up to control the masses and do away with individual freedom - an organisation that has the blood of thousands of inocent individuals on it's hands. I notice that no Christian ever quotes historical facts when talking about their religion. I hope that I have not offended you, but the way I see it, if you are allowed your opinion then so am I. Personally I think this thread should be locked or moved to the general discussion section, or better still why don't you start your own forum Denim. May your God bless you and may mine bless you too!

Frode, can't even spell the word Bible

Hello 'irritated and non-irritated' Pipsters;

In answer to the below Post - I [as kimlyn ] am not from America, but Australia. As for discussing the Bible on a PIPS forum - until Pips kicks in there is little useful material I can discuss, that will make any difference to my situation [ I'm bankrupt literally, lost pretty well everything I posses and out of work ] so talking about making more money won't fix my own situation. I have no other money to invest & getting work is not as realistic as you might think.

And as for our "Bible" discussion - I am more than happy to speak else where and can do, if others would like - but, I have a personal interest in Myths, Religion, ancient History and the Occult [as a "hobby"] and see no problem with discussing the matter - in a calm and ammicable way with those who like to debate and ask questions. A good debate exercises the mind. [ I also like electronics & Hifi, and numerous other subjects.] I got involved in this discussion because others asked questions that I felt equiped to answer. I am well past the stage of saving {as I am deemed too evil in my thinking processes} - even if I wanted to be. I have sinned against the holy spirit because I challenged the authority of the holy spirit behind God's "Faithful and disceet slave class " ( Matthew 24:45 ). [ You see I can't help myself I have to quote a scripture in my defense.] Some may agree and some disagree.

I feel it's all apart of getting to know each other, as one big happy money making family.

And yes I will answer Denon in due course as promised when "I load up the ammo" to blow away his belief system I don't see him as bigoted - misguided maybe; but definitely not bigoted - he is saved and also believes he has the truth; so what more could a man desire. For me as a non - christian; its all about Power and mind control.

Regards to all,
Kimlyn [ PS - DENON your a nice guy as are most Christians
{ I am not so sure about the Crusades} - I enjoy our discussion - I'm only teasing you no offense intended. ]

Originally Posted by solon

I would just like to add to the above by Frode. What has this 'discussion' got to do with the PIPS program? Denim I personally find your opinions bigoted, and offensive - you may have guessed that I am a non-christian. By the way that does not make me any less good than you, and neither do I need saving. Why do all Christians believe that any other religion or belief has to be the work of the Devil. You believe that all new agers are misguided and don't know the truth (as you see it), I believe that you are all brainwashed by an organisation set up to control the masses and do away with individual freedom - an organisation that has the blood of thousands of inocent individuals on it's hands. I notice that no Christian ever quotes historical facts when talking about their religion. I hope that I have not offended you, but the way I see it, if you are allowed your opinion then so am I. Personally I think this thread should be locked or moved to the general discussion section, or better still why don't you start your own forum Denim. May your God bless you and may mine bless you too!

I don’t have enough faith to become an atheist. An atheist believes with absolute certainty that there is no God. Interesting… isn’t that a kind of “faith” in the unseen? (Assuming you’ve never been dead before)

For example, when Shell was asked questions about how things were created or happened to be, the answer came back, “I don’t know I’m not a scientist.” Well isn’t that “faith” in something you clearly don’t understand? Shell believes in certain scientists, or a certain kind of science, which Shell clearly doesn’t understand – However Shell is more than willing to put “faith” in them. (I guess because they went to college) How can it be rational to believe in science, which you admittedly don’t understand, and yet scoff at a believe in God, which you also don’t understand? The point is everyone carries “beliefs”… or acts in “faith” of something… So if that’s the case – why not have faith in God?

A famous mathematician Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) looked at and rationalized the belief in God as a wager. It’s actually referred to historically as “Pascal’s Wager”. (the logical scientific types should like this)

Pascal decided that the only way to choose between a “bet” that God exists, and a “bet” that there is no God is whether an outcome in which God exists is preferable or more valuable in some sense – than an outcome in which God does not exist, even though in his earthly mind the probability may be only 50-50.

Pascal determined (way back in the 1600s) that on one side of the coin – if God does not exist, whether you lead your life “rightously” or “sinfully” it doesn’t matter because dead is dead…

But he supposed… What if God really does exist? Then your “bet” against God runs the risk of eternal damnation; while the “bet” on the other side of the coin, for God’s existance has the possibility of eternal salvation. So Pascal reasoned that sense “salvation” is clearly preferrable to “damnation”, the correct decision or “bet” is to act on the basis that God does in fact exist. The answer was obvious and logical for Pascal.

That’s why I say I don’t have enough “faith” to ever become an atheist. This is one wager I don’t want to lose.

God Bless Us Every One…

Anyone ever consider the possibility that God my be a energy being with a leaning towards the feminine side. Why else would every child begin life as a female.

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