Thread: Yes I do believe there is a spirit of hate in the world.

Hi again Micky,

It sounds to me like you have a war going on in your soul. I think you really want people to know the truth as it is and not as the world and religions tent to slant truth. And I also respect your right to decide for yourself what is the truth. I am also pleased to hear that you are willing to consider both sides of an issue.

On the issue of religion (man's attempts to please a Holy, Righteous, and Just God) verses Christianity (God providing his own sacrifice John 3:16 so man can believe God does really love him, and simply receive the work God did through Jesus's death on the cross on the behalf of man.)

So the Bible says, Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

C.S. Lewis wrote (you'll like this Twicewise) You don't have a soul...now if I stopped there I might get an argument from many. Someone might say something like, that's nuts ofcourse I have a soul. Well here's the whole quite. You do not have a soul, you ARE a soul, you have a body.

Our body Micky is for a short time, it's temporary. But our soul is eternal because man was created by God in the image of God, who is eternal. Micky our mind is programed to think in terms of time, we just can't get our mind around the concept of eternity. To even try to describe eternity we need to use a measurement of time to do it, so we say things like a billion years.

The question before man kind is can he be good enough, pray enough, give enough, sacrifice enough, pray enough, etc to satisfy a perfect God. This is the way of religion. The way of Christianity is after we heard the gospel (the GOOD news) we are now excepted by God in Christ, after we simply believed and received by grace [we did not earn it] through faith.

So the Bible says, Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Eph 1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

God did the work (it is finished) we believe and receive it for our self, and God gets all the glory.

The world says there is no God, religion says it's up to you to do the work, and Christianity says God finished the work of salvation because of His great love for ALL people. And Micky, it is up to you to decide what you believe. Christianity is the way of peace and rest, and faith, and real hope. Choose Christ and receive eternal life. Put your life in His hands and you will find peace.

The work of salvation is NOT finished:Christs mission was at least twofold,He has to come back to finish the job when there's no doubt that we can't exist without him.And that is very close.
The Soul is NOT immortal;only after we have been born again will we have the CHOICE of being immortal.We will be given two choices:we will have lived,literally TWICE.Once without God in our midst,which is here and now,and once WITH,through His Son,here on earth.The notion that "you only live once" is bogus.
But no-one who has lived before and has died is living today.God said this;only His Son is sitting at the right of Him.He will be the only One able to stop us from completely destroying ourselves and each other and His Creation.NOT we!!!
If anyone wants to know the truth,the literal truth and nothing but the truth,PM me and I'll point you in the right direction;but I can almost guarantee you won't like it,cuz it is brutal.At least,most people wouldn't.
Don't forget,though,there's the silver lining!

Any takers?

rahly you said,

The work of salvation is NOT finished.

But the Bible says, John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Jesus didn't say, I am finished, and when he said, "it is finished", I really do not think he was referring to his physical body, or his life.

Remember this, Mat 1:21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."

To save his people from their sin was the job God the Father gave to Jesus His Son.

Before Christ righteousness was a matter of keeping the law, but now Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

And the reason that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, is because there was a perfect sacrifice, and now the justice of God is satisfied.

Psa 85:10 Love and faithfulness meet together; righteousness and peace kiss each other.
Psa 85:11 Faithfulness springs forth from the earth, and righteousness looks down from heaven.

Because, it is finished. And that is GOOD!!!

In His death Jesus finished that work, thus it if finished. :lol:

'Fraid not,my friend.Christ MUST come back to finish the job of saving us.
Look around you and tell me this is "God's green earth"!It ain't!

Don't get me wrong;your posts aren't without substance,but in order to understand God's Word,you have to read it literally.

There've always been mis-interpretations and disagreements between different churches and religions because the words aren't taken literally,though they should be.Instead,they are interpreted,using human thought,which is not God's thought.

When Christ said it is finished,He was only referring to his mission as a human being,where He proved Himself blameless before God,and therefore capable of saving us and ruling over us with complete righteousness and Godliness.And that will only happen when there is absolutely no doubt in GOD's mind that we will annihilate ourselves.

I'm convinced 9/11 was the flash point that started the "Great Tribulation",the time of Jacob's Trouble,when night is turned into day,when knowledge has greatly increased,and people travel to and fro,and suddenly,"they were no longer safe in their ivory towers,nor on the coastlines,nor on the mountain side",etc.As reported by Peter,while emprisoned on the greek isle of Patmos.

In order for Christ to be accepted by mankind as the saviour of all mankind,mankind will have to literally SEE Him return,those who will be left alive,that is.Just think of all those who have never even heard of Christ;how will they accept Him as saviour if they have never known Him,or known OF Him?

God laid-out His Plan for ALL mankind,not only those with Christian backgrounds.Or for Israel(Do you know who all are Israel?It's not who you think,I'm sure.)

Yeah,Christ will be seen by all so all will know He is the Son of God;there is no other way.And He won't be no living idol in the Holy of Holies at Solomon's Temple,either.

Hope I didn't rain on anyone's parade.

Oh no,my friend,the job is NOT done.The next few years will be the most trying in all of human history.And almost no-one knows nor cares.
I'm not trying to pontificate,I can only tell you what I know.

We haven't been saved from our sins,yet.That's why there's war,famine,pestilence,death in our lives.And no,when you die,you DON'T go to heaven;man's heaven hasn't been created yet,only "the heavens",which is God's dwelling place,and no human who has ever lived,apart from Christ,has proven himself even worthy of SEEING God.Let alone,living with Him.
In case you don't know,it only takes one sin in your lifetime to fall short of Godly Perfection;only thanks to Christ will we ever be worthy of God's Presence in our midst.
In order to be saved from our sins,we(most of us,anyway)will have to literally be born again just like we were the first time,though into a world where there is no war nor famine nor pestilence nor death.Sin will not exist,since Christ Himself,along with His disciples,His prophets,and all of God's Saints will be governing this planet.Innocence will be the only rule,so to speak.
Those who have lived before will live again,with Christ as their Leader.And only because Christ has called them by name,not because mom and dad "loved" each other.

'Fraid not,my friend.Christ MUST come back to finish the job of saving us.

Yes rahly, Jesus will return, but not to save his people from their sin, he has finished that work. He will return with his bride (the church who is made up of believers from every Denomination) so the Father can estabilsh His kingdom through Jesus.

Don't get me wrong;your posts aren't without substance,but in order to understand God's Word,you have to read it literally.

OK...John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. I though it is finished ment just what it said. I did take it literally.

When Christ said it is finished,He was only referring to his mission as a human being,where He proved Himself blameless before God,and therefore capable of saving us

Yes Jesus was a perfect sacrifice (blameless before God) and not only was he capable of saving us, he did save us. Shouldn't we take this literal, Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

As reported by Peter,while emprisoned on the greek isle of Patmos.

John was on Patmos, not Peter.

I'm convinced 9/11 was the flash point that started the "Great Tribulation",the time of Jacob's Trouble

rahly I do believe we are close to the time of the tribulation, but I don't thing we are there yet. But this is just my opinion. And this is a whole different subject.

I'm going to bed now...zzzzzzzz

You are right,my mistake;John was at Patmos,not Peter.
Only the first segment of man's salvation is complete.
Yes,our fates have been sealed by the actions of Christ;that part is done.I think He was referring to the defeat of Lucifer when he said "It is finished".He was referring to his own trial before God.
If we aren't yet in the Tribulation,we are certainly at its door.
If we were saved from sin,sin would no longer be here;therefore,we have not been saved yet.We still live in sin.And sin is what is destroying us.

As for denominations,they all fall under the yoke of Mystery Babylon.Anyone who is an actual,literal Saint wasn't OF those denominations.Only God chooses who is Saint,man can't cuz he's faulted.

Christ is not the end of the Law;He is the personification of it,and He added to it on several occasions.For example:The Law states that if a man has sex with another man's wife,he has commited adultery.Christ went further and said:If you look at another man's wife with desire,you are guilty of the same in your heart(mind).Sin must be eradicated in order to live a life worthy of eternity.
He has to re-educate us all,and He'll only do that once we ALL see that we can't EXIST without Him.He has to teach every human being ever conceived,not only those who have accepted Him through their respective denominations.
Nowhere in scripture is it implied:"Christ has saved you from your sins(Law-breaking),you can go and sin your heads off now and it's allright."We still pay for our sins and the sins of others in THIS lifetime,as well as at the END of this lifetime.
I'll dig up some research and see if I can expand on this.
Sorry if I'm all over the place here,but it's late and I'm crashin' too.

Have a good rest,sowing.

hi rahly
I have to agree w/sowingseed ,I don't believe we have entered the end times yet ,but it is getting closer . look for the signs of the end times like the 2 prophets spoke of in Revelation . I see you also believe we will be here during the tribulations which many believe otherwise . I believe we will be here during that time (I would quote scripture But I am tired & don't remember the exact verses offhand) which is another reason I hope everything will be straightened out with p*** in the next year so I can prepare for the end times better ,in case it is in my lifetime.
It makes a person reflect upon the current situation in p*** about the w/drawals . Are the powers that be so against the little guy they will disrupt anything tha attempts to help them out of thier slavery to the system they have placed upon us :?: well good night all

thinksnow the end times is a cool topic...I thought you would be interested in reading this info I found in the Holman Bible Handbook. I just made a vew comments in green. I hope to find it interesting.

(12:4-13) Daniel’s Final Vision and Instructions. The angel instructed Daniel to seal up the revelation until the end times. Daniel then saw two other angelic beings standing by the river, both of whom were clothed in linen. One asked how long it would be before the revelation was fulfilled. The other responded that “a time, times, and a half a time� (probably three and a half years) would pass between the breaking of Israel’s power and the fulfillment of the vision.[Dan 12:11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.] (This is referring to a specific event that will take place. And note the time of the daily sacrifice is abolished. I believe this means that Israel will build a new temple and reestablish the daily animal sacrifices. At this time (now) in Israel daily animal sacrifices are not taking place, so that tells us we are not at that point in time yet. And Israel still has to build the new temple...this is a sign to look for.) The significance of the figure given in verse 12 (1,335 days) is unclear. In conjunction with verse 11, it implies that there would be an additional forty-five-day period before the complete fulfillment of the vision.

Matthew 24-25 comprise Jesus’ predictions of what will unfold after His death to usher in the end times. Its structure and interpretation are notoriously complex; the following is but one of several viable options.
Matthew 24:1-35 describes the signs and times of the temple’s destruction and of Christ’s return. The disciples asked about both events (v. 3), probably thinking of them as occurring simultaneously.
Jesus made clear in His reply that they are distinct. First, He reviewed a series of signs that do not herald the end but consistently characterize life in the Christian era (verses 4-14). Second, He described the horror of the actual destruction of the temple (verses. 15-20).

Third, He alluded to the subsequent “great tribulation� (verses. 21-28), which for Matthew, at least, seems to embrace the entire period between Christ’s two comings (compare “then� in v. 21 and “immediately� in v. 29).

The Return of Christ
Christ came first in the form of a servant. He will return as the Judge of all humankind (1 Thess 5:1-3; John 5:24-27). At the first coming He inaugurated His kingdom; at His second coming He will consummate His kingdom. The second coming will be physical and personal, as were His resurrection and ascension (Acts 1:10-11).
The coming of Christ will be immediately preceded by a cosmic and terrestrial distress (Luke 21:25-27). Christ’s return will bring a judgment upon the world that is sudden, unexpected, and inescapable (Matt 24:42-44). The Antichrist figure is to arise prior to the second coming. He will be decisively overthrown (2 Thess 2:1-8).
The kingdom of God, God’s rule and reign, will be consummated and fully established at the return of Christ. In some sense Christ’s redemptive kingdom is already realized in His church through the hearts and lives of believers (Rom 14:17; Col 1:13). There is also a future sense of Christ’s kingdom that is not yet realized throughout the earth and awaits the fullness of His kingship (Isa 11:9; Rom 8:18-27; Rev 20:1-6). The fullness of the kingdom, the future rule of Christ, is not identical with the final, eternal state after the establishment of the new creation, the new heavens, and the new earth (Isa 65; Rev 21). We can affirm that while the ultimate Christianization of the world will never occur, there will be a great outpouring of God’s grace in the end times as the gospel is proclaimed throughout the world (Matt 24:3-31; Rom 11:35-36). These grand truths have been systematized in four major ways referred to as postmillennialism, amillennialism, dispensational premillennialism, and historical premillennialism.

Outside of the Xian bible there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that such a person as Jesus Christ ever existed.