Thread: A Humble Request (Merged)

I'm more of a Charlie Chan and Columbo fan myself. Besides, isn't the Pink Panther the Diamond??????????????

I've been asked:

Critical Mass is when a company or population reaches a point of growth where it begins to expand at a rate greater than input and become self sustaining. This is oversimplified. For instance, the point at which earnings on available funds exceed demand of those funds. This is also true in membership. It is why MLM's fail. Critical Mass is reached in numbers, but never in dollars, as demand ALWAYS outstrips supply. So, this question is very involved and isn't as simple as "Yes" or "No". Some thought and discussion must go into it. As for the other question, a new payment platform was needed, per the previously discussed reasons. Would a Pioneer care to summarize the issue (once again?)

Now, we are going to get more detailed. This next set of questions will require some research, and go hand in hand with the Critical Mass supposition. As we discuss that, we must keep in mind the numbers. MATH TIME.

(Approximately) How many members existed at January 2005?

(Approximately) What was the "left/member" side of the Ledger ($$$'s) at January 2005? What was the "right/corporate/total" side?

(Approximately) Up to February 2005, how much ($$$) went "missing"?

6 questions unanswered. I won't be adding more until we get through this, as nothing going forward will make much sense otherwise, and we would leave ourselves open to (due) criticism.

Arcturus

There is something in the back of my mind ...

Approximately 2 hundred thousand members ...

$$$$$ I remember something about we hit the Billion mark ...

BUT don't quote me on that ..this mind may not go back that far ... LOL

Get the hook around my neck and drag me off stage if it is a BONG


goldeneye

If any of you would like to tip the other members who are on the other forums, that would be great to let them know on how to contribute to this discussion here. Apart from those that are banned, I am sure there are many more that would be willing to share their thoughts with ours.... they are very much welcomed.

YB.

Hearing of all these good deads, and members being paid well, and the payments being made back in June of 2004. stories of Bryans dedication, and well ment Intent is what drove me to make investments I could not really afford but i sacrificed to make. I will stand with Bryan, and the rest of the loyal PIPSTERS. No mater what the opposition is. When the dust clears on this one I am sure bryan will be the First to come forward with the results.
I know when joined it was made perfectly clear to me that there was no guarantee that this would last forever. It was well known that you should not
RISK ANY MORE THAN you could not afford to lose. ---What does that tell You? It was a GAMBLE. If you put your life savings on a number at the roullet table, and lose well ---Thats your Gamble and, there is not a casino in the word that will try to help you get your money back. YOU Jumped in with EYES wide open, and now when a problem arises beyond The CEOs control, people who have Paced thier bet and DON"T KNOW where thier bet has gone how do you Know who to make the acuasations against? who do you blame? My point is BRYAN IS doing everything in his Power, or so he says, to try to help members recoup. I have a tendecy to BELIEVE and Have Fait In HIM. I invested and when I decided to withdraw I went through the same process everyone else di I got Paid , Had the debit card and was able to get my original investment back into my savings account. (without my wife knowing LOL) One of the fortunate ones. PIPS?PICPAY was working well.
the results from the investigation are not final ARE THEY? If not then PIPS IS STILL ALIVE! BOB BTW: PICPAY Paid me in Jan Of 2005 from an Oct 2004 request.< but I WAS PAID!

Like any internet based company, problems arise when you have to interface with so many difference payment portals, the fees and security involved in such transactions, and the problems of funding to keep abreast with supply and demand.
Recent events with Stormpay, Intgold, e-gold and our old favourite Paypal must make any programme owner quake and loose heart in the stability and worthiness of such.
I think Picpay was on the cards long before Bryan suffered his own company loss with e-gold, if not only to shed the burden and cost of dealing with these currency outlets, but to have some control in the flow of funds in and out from member accounts. Pretty easy to audit such flow when it is central to one processor instead of hunting down each individual PIPs account and scanning the history. This was more inportant with the rise in Credit Card use, bank wires and such, since all new applications for a PIPs account required a Picpay interface to that account. The fees were very reasonable at the start, I think 2% from account to Picpay and only 50cents picpay to picpay. If Picpay did,nt happen then, it would have happened later with the rapid growth the company experienced.
Because Picpay dollars were, in a sense, just figures on the screen, and non negotiable anywhere else, the Merchant idea was born so that one could at least exchange those dollars for tangable goods.
Cheers
paddy

PS, Nice on Bob :)

Okay, okay, I will strip from memory what I recall from reading over many months....

Membership, was often touted over 200,000 members, however, I think that number may have been over inflated. Reason, several, if not most members have multiple accounts. BM often stated the number of members were around the 80,000 mark. Large number, regardless of which set you wish to use.

Last I recall in the old forum was account value being around 244,536, something like that. Now, keep in mind that BM's account number was 10,000, so take that from there. Also, during the CC shutdown and problem time, many accounts were started, only to have an issue, which I think rolled to the next number...

Now question #2 Arcturus, you may need to clarify a little more. Reading, I am assuming you are asking about membership vs. quantity of employee's that are employed? If that is the case, and we assume the 80,000 members is a valid number, and BM has stated in the past of having over 150 folks working in the accounts area. Given this ratio, you are asking employee's to handle 533 lender members each. Hefty in any situation you look at it...

Finally, the missing money, as stated in the past, it appears to have been somewhere between 50-200 million. The lower number seems more accurate, if you analyze the amount of members that were signed off as paid...

One thing members should also realize, when you are involved in large blocks of trading, and your withdrawls requests go up, you simply don't exit a trade to compensate the members... So how was this done? You simply should look at your member increase as a constant, with that, your withdrawls should increase as members reach the desired level of wealth. Simply from the outside, you look at new money controlling the payout of old money. (sound familiar?). However, what you are wanting to do is keep a bulk of the money tied up in long term, medium term, and short term investing. Now, two downfalls would have / could have taken place.

1. Declining membership start ups, causes BM to pull from short term funding to compensate lending members..

2. Accounting functions not balanced, and funds missing, takes toll on withdrawl activity, in other words, where is the boat leaking?

You will have to excuse the scatter brain post, this is a large topic to cover at one time...

4D

Originally Posted by ArcturusI

Michael: I am wounded that you have so little faith in me.................. the "missing millions" aren't really so mysterious, when you look at the circumstantial evidence (only BM could say for sure where and when - or whom)

I asked 2 questions last night (Critical Mass and PicPay/payment platform). Now the payment platform necessity has been alluded to, but not answered comprehensively for those who don't understand the evolution of Pips, and I am waiting for your "opinions" on whether or not Critical Mass was reached in Q4 2004. It is very important as to how we approach 2005.

Arcturus

It is not that I don't have faith in you, it is just that I thought we were sticking to facts and whilst there is certainly some circumstantial evidence that is all that it is. Having the opportunity to commit a felony does not mean that the opportunity was taken. Equally no-one seems to have considered the possibility that the management accounts might have been tailored for some time to amplify the profits in order to cover the tracks of underachievement.

Bryan was travelling extensively at the time and left the day to day running of the business to his general manager. The same person was also as I recall given the power to open Bank Accounts both for trading and for disbursement of revenues. ( I know you will say that one of those Bank accounts mysteriously bacame the account for a different business as that has often been alluded to) The same person stood on the stage in Hawaii and expressed his pride to be standing on the same stage as his "best friend" so it would not be surprising if he was trusted by Bryan even that close to the calamitous events a few months later.

With regards to your question about "Critical Mass". My view is that if the information we were being given was correct and that the day trading in Forex and futures was down to a small volume and that the returns were being supported by more lucrative trades in PPPs, Bank Debentures and other Bank instruments then the programme could have gone on for a very long time. The reason being that as the volume of the trades grows the margins tend to grow exponentially. When the 3% programme was first mooted in Langkawi the full returns were stated to be 5-8% a day so 3% was clearly supportable. Most trades consist of groups with a few million dollars joining bigger groups to form syndicates involving hundreds of millions. Pips was theoretically capable of leapfrogging this stage and going into stand-alone trades.

This arena however is full of danger and this is the reason why I questioned earlier whether the person in charge of the trades may have underperformed and made big losses hoping to win them back on the next trade. It is only human nature to cover up failure. Many of the members have used the knowledge gained from Pips to get involved themselves in other PPPs. From what I have heard these trades are very chancy and payment is normally delayed. Compliance issues are often cited as the reason for these delays. All are covered by non-disclosure agreements so there is reluctance to publish details and the whole world of PPPs remains largely cloaked in secrecy.

This would go some way to explaining why a company with no debt other than the obligation to pay ROL should have suddenly started to exhibit cash flow problems.

The question then is were the investments lost or merely delayed sufficiently to make the company default on day to day obligations?

If they were delayed then that would go some way to explain Bryans confidence that the programme will be re-structured once the investigation is complete as most of the outstanding trades would by now have matured.

If the money was largely lost then the profits from HALotto may be a vital source of funds for the future of Pips and anyone thinking of sabotaging the Lotto should think twice about the consequences for all of us.

Either way I am certain that Bryan will do his absolute utmost to ensure that we have an opportunity to start again without a total loss of our investments.

He has done it before when most CEOs would have run for cover. He is under siege just now but when it is lifted he will be back and street-smarter than ever,

Another couple of bobs worth,

Michael

Yes, Mia correct. I believe BM was being stuffed like a goose for fois gras, but, we need to complete our landscaping, THEN we can raise the barn.

Thank you Taxman. You are on the ball. Without the actuall membership roll, we don't know the exact number, but I agree with you; it is most likely closer to 100k than 200k. I'm not sure that really matters as much, but we have determined that there were many involved. (I often wonder if there were 200k accounts, with 80k members or so. I have 2 accounts myself, and many Pioneers have more)

Anyway. Critical Mass was reached operationally, as Taxman pointed out, from the standpoint of the "office". Expand or move was the next step, and I believe that plans were in the works for this.

Now, on to the math. Critical Mass was not reached with $$$'s. Why? Because of the makeup of the program. Regardless of the amount, only 2% is available at a given point in time making this a sustainable proposition as long as earnings at least equal expenses. If you will recall, the "left" was member money, the "right" was corporate money. As long as the right was $.01 higher than the left, members are covered. If you have units at $25, and earnings are greater, there you go.

Now, this doesn't take into account compounding, etc., but you get the basic point. Answer this: Each unit is inidividual with a life span of 180 days. How long does it take (in trading days) for that unit to earn another unit at 2%?

THAT is an important point. We don't want to hear about how many millions you are owed, or can earn. Crawl, walk, run. We need to first look at the basics. If you ignore the basics along with the history, as Mia pointed out, you will never be able to rise above this and examine it for it's worth and potential. After you have a good base, then you may stand upon it.

Arcturus