Thread: Speaking of FIRST posts by someone...

This is the first post I made in ROL....PIPS member for 14 months...
BEFORE posting something....

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I'm Gonna Build a PYRAMID using my RETURNS!

Hi All,
This is my first post ever in any P*P* related forum AND English is not my native language, so please have patience with my spelling and grammar.

I don't intend to express my views or opinions on what is or what isn't true, false or whatever, regarding the threads created here.

INSTEAD I'll tell you:
"How I Built my Own Pyramid with the help of BM!"

Several years ago I happened to stumble on an outline of a Pyramid when surfing the net, which would enhance the lives of all who would get into the pyramid. This was a Russian site, so I had my doubts about the promises made about the outcome of the scheme, especially when it comes to the cost of getting involved = $50,000,000.00 USD!

Then I got introduced to P*P* by a friend...AND after being a member for more than a year and with a Five Figure start in $, I knew that I would be able to: "Build My Own Multi-Level Pyramid", with the help of BM!

ESPECIALLY when BM himself advocates a very true and burning ambition to help people all over the world to get a more decent and fruitful life.

Now I'm building THIS PYRAMID in my dreams, and it will help a LOT of people all over AS I'LL BUILD MORE PYRAMIDS ALL OVER THE WORLD." With The Help of BM!

FINALLY,
The IDEA behind this post is to open the eyes of ALL TRUE MEMBERS of P*P* (those who share the views of BM to really make an effort to help your fellow man; including your self and your loved ones) and REKINDLE the Purpose I know you all had when joining P*P*.

SO, let's all start LIVING YOUR DREAM and again put some POSITIVE ENERGY into it AND It Will Come True!

By doing so...YOU'll ALL help BM to MAKE HIS DREAM
COME TRUE!

If you don't believe it will happen..then you have missed something when visiting MY PYRAMID!

All The Best

LG

Love Is In the AIRES

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NOW to add some more to this:

To bring the future BACK again..
here it is:

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Hi All,

I have a dream....and hopefully my dream will come through real soon...

I'm Convinced that Pips IS the saviour for my project....

Here it is...

my Main Interest is to find the way back to Paradise

I'm NOT Joking here...this is MY DREAM Fullfilled!

So..What is Paradise?

Paradise4us would imho be this..

Our Planet with an even and warm climate all around, With a CALM weather and a calm surface without earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, floods or famines.

All people living in harmony, No wars, No criminality or perverts...

People with open hearts to all and an understanding of the love of the universe..
The Family is the building block once again...I mean One Woman...One Man..
And their children...united into a strong unit that builds the NEW CIVILIZATION
together with other families and Individuals.

This has been my dream as long as I can remember...and I've been on this track since I was a kid and stood one night and gazed at the stars and just felt the wholeness of everything and there and then I UNDERSTOOD that all was connected somehow...

I've looked into many things for some answers...some gave a few..some gave wrong answers..but if I look back from where I stand now...I can see that all I've been studying...all I've been engaged in...all events that happened to me, seems to be destined somehow..

I've read quite a lot of The Kolbrin and NOW it makes perfect sense to me...but I had to do some studying into biblical history, Biblical archeology. Mostly from Ron Wyatt and Jonathan Gray. Dead Men's Secrets by JG is a real Eye-opener...it gives you a glimpse of the Paradise that once existed...The Golden Age!

I'm now studying quite a lot of quantum physics, and all subjects I have been studying this life, seems to be parts of the Big Puzzle.

The Pyramid displayed in my avatar is one of my MAIN "hobbies".
It represent a NEW russian technology to OPTIMIZE any biological system..

Experiments with smaller Pyramids in Russia, have converted the biolgocal systems surrounding the pyramid into total harmony..

I'm studying the Philophosy behind the technology, and it reveals a lot of the mysteries of Life and Living...

My dream is to get some funds together ($50,000,000.00usd) and build one of my own...I heard it could even help to smoth out earhquakes and even hurricanes...

AND...also to Harmonize ANY group of people...

It actually harmonizes the 3 forces that we are exposed to all the time...

Electromagnetic Fields, Sun Radiation and Gravity.

No matter where you are on thre planet, you're always exposed to these forces...And what has been established is that these forces affect you very much MENTALLY...so here we COULD have a solution for mankinds
survival at a new and higher plateau.



The KEY to rebuild the Civilization lies in the research and Discoveries of AIRES Technologies of S:t Petersburg in Russia.

To give some more details on the Pyramid project...

here's a list of the benefits this would provide to the world...

1. Depolarization of geomagnetic abnormalities of wide profile in a local space (a 22-m high pyramid will have a coverage area ranging between 30 and 50 km, depending on
the relief).


2. Balancing of the structural complex of the spatial entropy of the environment:• The converter considerably reduces the seismic activity and probability of
earthquakes.

• The converter considerably reduces the probability of occurrence of turbulent
processes in the air basin surrounding it, including windspouts and tornados.


3. Balancing of climate and ecological situation:• The converter exerts a powerful influence on the environment of water basins and
forestlands in the area of its installation.

• The converter provides stabilization of weather and climate conditions in the
region where it is installed.


4. The internal space of the converter can be used to restore psychophysical state of the
human organism and to improve the human organism’s adaptability:

• To decrease the risk of hyperactive pathologies, such as cancer, cardio-vascular
diseases (cardiac infarction), infectious diseases (hepatitis, etc.), and epidemics of
all kinds, by 20-30%.

• To decrease the occurrence of congenital pathologies in children.

• The internal water basin of the converter can be used for recreational and recovery
purposes to remove effects of stress and overload.

• Different zones and levels of the converter can be used for carrying out a
purposeful correction and restoration of a person’s psychophysical state.

• The internal space of the converter can be used for carrying out a number of
promising physical experiments.


The above list is far from complete and outlines the main effects that can be achieved by means of the
structural synthesizer that is proposed in the project “Aires Ecological Converter.”

The findings and developments used in the project “Aires Ecological Converter” are made by the
Research Center of the Aires New Medical Technologies Foundation and are protected by seven patents.


Not too bad for a start...eehh?

Anyhow...this IS MY Pips Dream....

Largo

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I have to say THANK YOU to all who have pm'ed me about this...
I've tried to answer every Q...to the best of my knowledge...
If anyone want to find out HOW this can help YOU...please PM me...

This IS the 21 Century Tech....for HEALING the body...AND YOU...

I feel more and more in BALANCE when using these products...

It's GREAT...

Take Care

Largo

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This is STILL a Subject under development...NEW discoveries happens all the time...the LATEST is called Milli-Meter Therapy...have to study some more about this....

More to Come....

Largo

If I may play God's advocate, while I am certain of your positive intentions, I think part of this plan is a bit evil. It looks like the world in the Demolition Man movie! It goes against nature.

I don't want the world to have an even climate all around. It is like trying to keep an even level of acidity all through out an entire organism... you would kill everything including yourself!

It is the variation and diversity of that climate that permits life on earth. I hope you don't want to try adapting polar bears and Camels to live in the same conditions!

Also, I'd like to know how you intend to make all people good without the elimination of free will... surely it may be trough awareness, but again I don't want people to be all too good... I loved it when I was a brat at school! I also want to have a different opinion from you on this matter, and on how this world should be.

Who is to decide what is good anyway?
Who is to decide whether things should be balanced, what kind of balance should there be, or whether things should be alternating in a cycle?

I don't want everything to be easy! I want to have challenges!

I don't want the world to be in anyone's image!

I want to eat chicken, fish, Beef and pork, drink tea & coffee and occasionally drink beer!


However, those are only a few bad points in the middle of a lot of good. Written in good English too! I always admired an idealist and hope the above comments help you to improve on your vision rather than discourage you!

If on the other hand you'd like to create a better world I'd be glad to help you in the following:

Free medicines to cure illnesses without causing side effects
An economical system that doesn't encourage people to steel or corporations to be immoral
Schooling systems that build people, rather than transforming people in machines
A sort of 'porn' industry that promotes genuine love & education about relationships rather than striving on the addiction of sexually insecure individuals & make women appear as gullable & naive (hey, it's a market I would be a consumer of ok!)
A political system that leaders can't abuse, where everyone is encouraged to be good, intelligent, informed, educated, and then participate in taking of decisions as an independent thinking being.
Electricity and machines that are totally fre of pollution.
A substitute for wood and laws that would stop deforestaton
A way of building homes & cities without destroying the resources of nature (something like Soleri's archologies if you're familiar with the term)

Anything good that you may be inspired to think of as long as it doesn't go against nature's plans or limit diversity and creativity.

Something I agree on is that the PIPS community does contain people who really wish to make a difference to better life on Earth. I also have had the sensation that this community could be the start of something much greater than we are conceiving right now.

Oh, and I also have my own HUGE DREAMS on how to better this world... I haven't found the courage to disclose them like you had.

Meanwhile, you may be interested in this project too www.authenticbusiness.co.uk

Originally Posted by Wacky

If I may play God's advocate, while I am certain of your positive intentions, I think part of this plan is a bit evil. It looks like the world in the Demolition Man movie! It goes against nature.

I don't want the world to have an even climate all around. It is like trying to keep an even level of acidity all through out an entire organism... you would kill everything including yourself!

It is the variation and diversity of that climate that permits life on earth. I hope you don't want to try adapting polar bears and Camels to live in the same conditions!

Also, I'd like to know how you intend to make all people good without the elimination of free will... surely it may be trough awareness, but again I don't want people to be all too good... I loved it when I was a brat at school! I also want to have a different opinion from you on this matter, and on how this world should be.

Who is to decide what is good anyway?
Who is to decide whether things should be balanced, what kind of balance should there be, or whether things should be alternating in a cycle?

I don't want everything to be easy! I want to have challenges!

I don't want the world to be in anyone's image!

I want to eat chicken, fish, Beef and pork, drink tea & coffee and occasionally drink beer!


However, those are only a few bad points in the middle of a lot of good. Written in good English too! I always admired an idealist and hope the above comments help you to improve on your vision rather than discourage you!

If on the other hand you'd like to create a better world I'd be glad to help you in the following:

Free medicines to cure illnesses without causing side effects
An economical system that doesn't encourage people to steel or corporations to be immoral
Schooling systems that build people, rather than transforming people in machines
A sort of 'porn' industry that promotes genuine love & education about relationships rather than striving on the addiction of sexually insecure individuals & make women appear as gullable & naive (hey, it's a market I would be a consumer of ok!)
A political system that leaders can't abuse, where everyone is encouraged to be good, intelligent, informed, educated, and then participate in taking of decisions as an independent thinking being.
Electricity and machines that are totally fre of pollution.
A substitute for wood and laws that would stop deforestaton
A way of building homes & cities without destroying the resources of nature (something like Soleri's archologies if you're familiar with the term)

Anything good that you may be inspired to think of as long as it doesn't go against nature's plans or limit diversity and creativity.

Something I agree on is that the PIPS community does contain people who really wish to make a difference to better life on Earth. I also have had the sensation that this community could be the start of something much greater than we are conceiving right now.

Oh, and I also have my own HUGE DREAMS on how to better this world... I haven't found the courage to disclose them like you had.

Meanwhile, you may be interested in this project too www.authenticbusiness.co.uk

Thanks for your stated opinins...

Your Imagination of Paradise4us,as I call my dream, DIFFERS quite a lot from my own perception of it....If you took the time to read ALL my posts in all the Pips related Forums You'll get an Idea of MY Perception regarding this Issue...
But...then again...

Thanks again for your Opinion...

When all this is over... we should probably arrange for a meeting with all interested Pipsters who want a change to the BETTER for this civilization...

just an Idea...


Best Regards

Largo

While we are STILL waiting for the outcome of the investigation...I would like to elaborate some more of the Concept of my Dream:

Project:Re-building Paradise…


The way I see it… is that it’s VERY real to accomplish such a project….



I mean, the role model is pretty much described in the writings of Jonathan Gray…

Especially in his work “Dead Men’s Secrets”…



He takes the reader onto an “Archaeology Trip”. that makes your hair stand up!



He points at Physical Evidence in the hundreds and hundreds about an Earlier SUPER Civilization, existing here on earth. Before the Great Deluge, which is proven beyond doubt to have happened between the years between 2345 and 2344 BC…



SOME of the evidence for this GLOBAL EVENT you can red here:



FROM Jonathan Gray’s work:

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The nature “clocks” say 4,000+ years -

THE LOST SQUADRON

“You’ re kidding!” laughed the lab worker. “Only 4,400 years ago!”
“Yes,” repeated Kent. “ The surface of this whole planet was remodelled by the Flood only 4,400 years ago.”
“No way! In case you don’ t know, Dr. Hovind, I work at the Denver National Ice Core Laboratory here in Colorado. And we’ ve been taking cores of ice from Greenland and Antarctica. It’ s dry… very cold… the glaciers are MILES THICK… but their annual growth rings are veryTHIN.”

He paused to observe Kent’ s reaction. Then he thrust home. “We’ ve measured the ice… and I tell you, man, it’ s 135,000 years old! Your 4,000 years is a joke.”

“ I’ d like to see your lab,” said Kent, calmly.

The next day my friend Dr. Kent Hovind met the worker at the lab.The employee ushered him into the giant freezer which stored the long cores from ice drilling.

“ See this core from Greenland?” said the worker. “We drilled down and brought it up from 10,000 feet. See the rings? This core takes us back 135,000 years. You’ ll notice the rings along its length… dark – light – dark – light.

“Well, these represent annual rings, because in summer the top layer of snow melts and then re-freezes as clear ice, which shows up dark here. In winter, the snow doesn’ t get a chance to melt, so it packs – and shows up as a white layer. These layers of dark – light – dark – light, indicate 135,000 summers and winters.”

Hovind looked him in the eye. “Aren’ t you assuming those are annual rings?”

Let’ s step back a few years… to the famous lost squadron.



THE LOST SQUADRON

In 1942, during World War II, some war planes landed in Greenland. When the war ended, those planes were left there and forgotten. In 1990, an aircraft enthusiast came up with the bright idea to find them and fly them off again. He organised a group and they went searching. As it turned out, they had to use radar, because the planes were under the ice… in fact, so deep under the ice, the men had a hard job finding them. Do you know, that lost squadron had got covered by 263 feet of ice in 48 years!

Let’ s do some arithmetic.

263 feet divided by 48 years… that’ s an ice growth of about 5.5 feet per year.
Now divide 10,000 feet by 5.5. And you get 1,824 years for ALL of the ice to build up. We should allow longer for the fact that the deeper ice is pressed into finer layers.

So 4,400 years is no problem!

Note: those planes did not sink into the ice, due to pressure on the ice.

The ice had grown OVER them.

In April, 1999, Kent visited Bob Cardin at his museum in Middleboro, Kentucky. (www.thelostsquadron.com Phone 606 248 1149) Cardin had dug out and was restoring the P-38.

You may be wondering, how did they get that plane out? Ingenious. They had melted a hole down to the airplane, broken it apart and brought up the pieces through the hole.

“When you dug it out,” asked Kent, “ did you see any layers of ice… dark – light – dark – light, above the airplane?”

“Yeah, I did, as a matter of fact.”

“How many layers of ice were there?”

“Many hundreds of them.”



Hundreds of annual rings
in just 48 years?

“How could there be many hundreds of annual rings in only 48 years?”

“ THOSE ARE NOT ANNUAL RINGS. That’ s not summer and winter,” replied Cardin. “ It’ s warm – cold – warm – cold – warm –cold. You can get ten of those in one day.”

And that’ s a fact!

Yet, the scientific elite was still calling them annual rings in 1998. (See Scientific American, February 1998, p.82).

Somebody’ s either ignorant… or lying.

I’m worried. The textbooks you read today are textbooks not only about science, but about evolution. They’ re trying to sneak evolution in with the science. Sneaking beer ads in with football matches doesn’ t mean beer is football. Sneaking evolution in with the science, doesn’ t make it science.

So let’ s take a fresh look at the facts.

Is it possible that a Great Flood completely re-fashioned the surface of our planet only 4,350 years ago… really?



GLACIERS – c.4,000 YEARS

Field work in the European Alps on the speed of glacier growth and retreat has revealed the fact (surprising to evolutionists) that numerous glaciers there are no older than 4,000 years. (R.F. Flint, Glacial Geology and the Pleistocene Epoch, p.491)

The eminent French geologist A. Cochen de Lapparent noted the expansion rate of today’ s larger glaciers. For example, Mer de Glace, on Mont Blanc, moves 50 centimetres a day. The Rhone Glacier would at this rate have taken 2,475 years to expand to its maximum from Valais to Lyons.

De Lapparent then compared the terminal moraines (debris) of several modern glaciers with those left by the Rhone Glacier when it retreated from its maximum expansion. The Rhone Glacier had taken 2,400 years to retreat.

Thus the total period of advance and retreat was 4,875 years.

One could expect that conditions soon after the Flood would hasten the ice build-up and thus reduce the above time span.

“He also concluded that the entire Ice Age was of very short
duration.” (Immanual Velikovsky, Earth in Upheaval. London: Sphere Books, Ltd., 1978, p.143)

Researchers Suess and Rubin concluded that in the mountains of the western United States ice advanced only 3,000 years ago. According to the latest evidence, glaciers may NOT even need thousands of years to build up, nor to disintegrate.

New Zealand’ s Tasman Glacier, for example, is dying within our life time.

Brent Shears runs his Glacier Explorers cruise on a lake which didn’ t even exist when he was born. LakeTasman, the result of the melting of the Tasman Glacier, is not much more than 20 years old. As the glacier recedes, at an ever-increasing rate, it is leaving in its wake the body of water now known as LakeTasman.

Visiting the site, Stephen Lacey writes of “ the creaks and groans of melting and movement. It strikes me that what I can hear is the death throes of the glacier as it drags its body back up the valley… its long claws ripping and tearing at the ground like a great wounded beast.

Suddenly I hear a sound like an express train, roaring through a
tunnel.

“All heads turn towards the direction of the noise, just in time to see a huge chunk of ice break away from the glacial wall and plunge 10 metres into the lake. The splash sends a shock wave through the water and the boat rocks steadily. I realise that the crippled glacier is a whole lot more dynamic than the cold white photos in our high school geography books.

“ ‘That was a serac fall,’ Brent says. ‘It was only a small one… I’ ve seen them the size of houses.’ ” (“ The Big Thaw” , Panorama Inflight Magazine)

The Tasman Glacier is retreating at an estimated 80 metres every year. LakeTasman is already six kilometres long and growing. Over the years, on the glaciers around Mount Cook (including Tasman), one hundred people have vanished into crevasses and other spots. Now, as the glaciers retreat, bodies are appearing in the terminals.

In 1998, research by a team at the University of Colorado, in Boulder, revealed that mountain glaciers all over the world are in retreat.

The European Alps have lost about 50 percent of their ice in the past century, while 14 of 27 glaciers that existed in Spain in 1980 have disappeared. In Africa, the largest glacier on Mount Kenya has shrunk by 8 percent in the past 100 years, while those on Mount Kilimanjaro are only 25 percent as big. (Charles Arthur, in an article in The Independent, U.K., June 8, 1999)



INLAND LAKES - c.4,000 YEARS

We saw in Chapter 20 that present desert areas show evidence of recent water bodies. Studies of salt and mineral deposits in numerous glacial lakes that have no outlet to the ocean suggest that none of them is older than 4,000 years. This is based on concentration, area, water composition and evaporation rate. (Velikovsky, pp.148-150)

A study by Claude Jones of the lakes of the Great Basin (from larger glacial lakes) showed that these lakes have existed only about 3,500 years. Van Winkle obtained the same result on Albert and Summer lakes in Oregon, and also Gales on OwenLake in California. The end of the Ice Age, therefore, as well as the remains of prehistoric animals found in the lake deposits, apparently goes back no more than 40 centuries ago.

LakeAgassiz, the largest glacial lake in North America, was formed when the ice of North America melted. Study of its sediments shows that its total life span was only a few hundred years.

The American glaciologist Warren Upham expressed surprise at the “ geological suddenness of the final melting of the ice-sheet, proved by the brevity of existence of its attendant glacial lakes.” (Warren Upham, The Glacial LakeAgassiz. 1895, p.240)

Erosion on the shores of LakeAgassiz and the condition of residue indicate that this great change took place no longer than “ a few thousand years at the most.” (Ibid., p.239)



RIVER DELTAS - 3,600 to 5,000 YEARS

The deltas of the Nile, the Volga and the Mississippi are all essentially alike and could be of about the same age. The beginnings of these deltas were made by the enormous rivers whose old high terraces we see far above the present channels.

The Mississippi River brings down mud at the rate of 80,000 tons an hour. From an evaluation of the debris borne to the Mississippi delta as sediment, two scientists, Humphries and Abbot, in 1861, calculated the delta to be 5,000 years old.

Of course, excessive water flow during the early post-Flood centuries would reduce this time span.

On the Alaska -British Columbia border is the Bear River, a stream still fed by a melting glacier that enters the PortlandCanal. Concerning the Bear River delta, Immanuel Velikovsky notes: “On the basis of three earlier accurate surveys made between the years 1909 and 1927, G. Hanson in 1934 calculated with great exactness the annual growth of the delta through deposited sediment. At the present rate of sedimentation the delta is estimated to be ‘only 3600 years old.’ ”

(Velikovsky, p.145)



WATERFALLS - c.4,000 YEARS

Rarely has a waterfall either deepened its bed at the top of the falls or shown more than slight erosion into the cliffs. This is evidence of “ newness” .

We stand in awe before the mighty Niagara, deafened by the roar of its spectacular plunge. And we say, “What power!”
The rate at which the Niagara Falls are moving upstream indicates that they are no more than a few thousand years old. The rim of the falls has been wearing back from its original precipice to form a gorge. Examination of records shows that since 1764, the falls cut the gorge from LakeOntario toward Lake Erie at the rate of 5 feet per year. If this wearing down of the rock has continued always at the same rate, 7,000 years would have been sufficient to do the work.

However, closer to the Flood, erosion was much more rapid. Therefore the age of the gorge must be considerably younger.

G.F. Flint of Yale, noting “ the present rate of recession of the Horseshoe Falls to be, not five feet, but rather 3.8 feet, per year,” calculated the age of the Upper Great Gorge, the uppermost segment of the whole gorge, to be “ somewhat more than four thousand years.” (Flint, p.382)

Careful investigation by another scientist, W.A. Johnston, of the Niagara River bed, disclosed that the present channel was cut by the falls less than 4,000 years ago. (Velikovsky, p.176)



CORAL REEFS - c.4,000 YEARS

Drill samples have confirmed coral reefs to be growing like tree rings. The Pandora Reef in Queensland, Australia, has grown 15.3 mm (c. ½ inch) per year in 118 years. This was discovered by scientists from the Australian Institute of Marine Science at CapeFerguson, south of Townsville. (Scientist Peter Isdale of A.I.M.S. reported his findings in Nature, vol.310,
16 August, 1984, pp.578-579. Also reported in Creation Ex Nihilo, November, 1985, pp.6-9)

On this basis the whole 10 metre (32½ foot) thickness of coral that makes up this reef would have taken only about 660 years to grow!

Previously measured growth rates for massive coral colonies elsewhere on the Great Barrier Reef are from 5 mm to 25 mm per year. At their thickest part (at the edge of the continental shelf) the outer ‘barrier’ reefs are about 55 metres (180 feet) thick. On the basis of an average growth rate of ½ inch per year, the Great Barrier Reef can be no older than 4,320 years. (At 15 mm per year it would be less than 3,700 years old - which fits the sea rise scenario described in another chapter.)



TREES - c.4,000 YEARS

Today’ s oldest living things date to the post-Flood times.

Sequoia: Some believe that these monsters may enjoy perpetual life, since they seem to be immune to disease and pest attack. Many are over 3,000 years old. A remarkable fact is that these still-living trees seem to be the original trees in their present stands.

Edmund Schulmann, writing in Science, asks:
“Does this mean that shortly preceding 3275 years ago (or 4000 years ago, if John Muir's somewhat doubtful count was correct) all the then living giant sequoias were wiped out by some catastrophe?” (Edmund Schulmann, “ Longevity Under Adversity in Conifers” , Science, vol.119, March 26, 1934,



Kauri: Late in the 19th century, on New Zealand’ s Coromandel Peninsula, a giant kauri was felled. This lordly tree, measuring 76 feet (23.4 meters) in girth and 80 feet
(24.6 metres) to the first limb, was discovered in the Mill Creek area, north-east of Thames. It was thousands of years old and still alive - when ruthlessly felled. Legend is that the stump thereafter supported a dance band and a goodly group of dancers. If reports at the time were true, this would be the oldest of all living kauris. Its age was given as 4,000 years.



Bristlecone pine: The oldest bristlecone pine “ began growing more than 4,600 years ago,” according to Schulmann. (Schulmann, “ Bristlecone Pine, Oldest Living Thing” , National Geographic, vol.113, March, 1958, p.355)

Whitcomb and Morris comment:
“ Since these, as well as the sequoias and other ancient trees, are still living, it is pertinent to ask why these oldest living things apparently have had time to develop only one generation since they acquired their present stands at some time after the Deluge. There is no record of a tree, or any other living thing, being older than any reasonable date for the Deluge.”

(John C. Whitcomb and Henry M. Morris, The Genesis Flood. Phillipsburg, New Jersey: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., 1986, p.393)

In regard to the 4,600 year figure for the oldest bristlecone pine, it should be stated that tree-ring measurement is not entirely satisfactory. In irregular years there can be two rainy seasons, and this would produce two rings instead of one.

Dr. Clifford Wilson summarises the position rather well:
In fact, under certain conditions a tree may demonstrate more than two rings in a year. Three is not uncommon, as with a tree that grows on a slope. If the water supply runs off rapidly it sometimes gives an artificial wet and dry period three or more times in a year. There are even cases where the opposite sides of a tree have exhibited different numbers of rings.” (Clifford Wilson, The Chariots Still Crash. Old Tappan, N.J.: Fleming H. Revell and Co., 1976, pp.53,54)

Taking this into account, the oldest bristlecone pines reflect fairly closely the date of the Great Flood, after which trees began once more to take root around the planet.



OLDEST DESERT - c.4,000 YEARS

The SaharaDesert has what’ s called a prevailing wind pattern (meaning, the wind usually blows the same way). And this creates a problem. The hot air blowing off the desert “ cooks” the trees at the edge and they die. Then that area also becomes desert. (The process is called desertification.)

In 1999 it was announced that the SaharaDesert is about 4,000 years old. This figure was based on desert growth patterns, rate of growth, and so on. (Potsdam Institute for Climate Research, in Germany, July 15, 1999. Geophysical Research Letters)

Now, this does raise a question. If the earth is billions of years old, shouldn’ t there be a bigger desert some place? Why is the biggest desert on earth only 4,000 years old?

As we’ ve noticed, there was a worldwide Flood some 4,350 years ago. It’ s pretty hard to have a desert under a flood, right? So the biggest desert should be – and is – less than 4,350 years old!



AXIS RECOVERY - c.4,340 YEARS

We dealt with this in Surprise Witness. But it can bear repeating. South Australian government astronomer George P. Dodwell investigated what astronomers call “ the secular variation of the obliquity of the ecliptic” .

Put simply, he studied measurements of the sun's shadow-length by ancient astronomers from five continents. Available records of the position of the sun at observed solstices showed that an exponential curve of recovery had taken place in relation to the earth's axis. He concluded that the earth’ s axis had once been upright, but it had suddenly changed to a 26½ degrees tilt, from which it had been wobbling back to its present mean tilt of 23½ degrees.

Dodwell realised that such a sudden change would result in massive, worldwide flooding and catastrophic effects. The date of this event, from his curve of observations, is 2345 BC - about 4,340 years ago. That is also, as we have seen, the traditional date for Noah's Flood.

If you’ ve heard anyone say that the earth has tipped over several times since then, don’ t believe it. They haven’ t heard of Dodwell’ s findings. The evidence shows a tipping of the axis in 2345 BC, followed by a measurable corrective wobble. There is a clear a pattern of recovery

since 2345 BC that has not been disrupted.



THE EGYPT “PROBLEM”

“But a global wipe-out in 2345 BC?” I hear someone say. “How can that be? If the Flood really occurred only 4,350 years ago, then how on earth do you explain that the Egyptians have had a continuous and uninterrupted civilization before and after this period?”

A good question. And here’ s the straight answer…





The human “clocks” say 4,000+ years -

PUBLISH – IF YOU DARE

I am going to let you know about a boycott threat… as well as the sabotage of ancient documents… all in the name of “ science” .

You can stake your life on it. There is a WAR under way. A battle to the death between the TRUTH and an entrenched FAIRYTALE.

The evidence for a global Deluge about 4,350 years ago is
overwhelming. Yet, the established line is that this cannot be.

The Egyptians, we are told, have had a continuous and uninterrupted civilization before and after this period. So throw out the worldwide Flood. It simply never happened. Or, not in 2345 BC.



EGYPTIAN DATES BEFORE THE FLOOD?

All right, brace yourself for a shock. Our conjectured history of Egypt is probably 600 to 800 years too long!

Some six to eight supposed “ dynasties” never existed!

In case you didn’ t know, inscriptions we dig up don’ t carry a date, nor a ruler’ s sequence number. It means we can easily get our dates wrong, even by hundreds of years.

The problem began in the early days of Egyptology. Until recent years modern archaeologists were giving highly exaggerated datings for the Egyptian dynasties. Dates like 6000 BC… 4000 BC. Scholars built up a system of Egyptian dating that went back thousands of years earlier than is possible if one accepts the Genesis chronology.

Clearly one party was wrong – either the modern scholars (with their longer system), or the Bible (with its shorter dating system). So why were the longer dates for Egypt accepted?

Simply because all the listed kings were placed one after another, in succession. This added thousands of extra years to Egyptian history.



5 WAYS WE WERE MISLED

Here are some facts of which early Egyptologists were not aware:

Problem 1:

Rulers were known by a title, as well as by a personal name. For example, it has now been discovered that Rameses II was not Rameses II, at all! He was most probably Rameses XLII – that is, the 42nd ruler called Rameses, which was rather a title, like Pharaoh. (Charles V. Taylor, Creation Ex Nihilo, September-November, 1987, p.9)

So where a ruler’ s title and name both appeared, Egyptologists had listed them separately, as though they were different pharaohs. Correcting this would shorten the list.

Problem 2:

Then it was discovered that pharaohs regularly had as many as five, and even more, names. The Egyptologists had taken these and listed them one after another.

So, again, the chronology had to be shortened.

Problem 3:

It was also discovered that other listed pharaohs ruled at the same time over different parts of Egypt. (Ibid.) Rulers sometimes appointed others as co-regent during their lifetime. This means that two “ names” ruled concurrently.

Egyptologists have been adding many of these names on to a long list of what they thought were “ consecutive” reigns.

What a mix-up! The dating was thrown into chaos. More shortening!

With such discoveries, the span of Egyptian history had to be
progressively reduced. So that today it is commonly believed that Egyptian civilisation began about 3000 BC.

But as it turns out, even that is too long!

Problem 4:

To add fuel to the fire, here’ s another shocker.

Linguistic expert and university lecturer Edo Nyland of Canada has recently decoded and translated some 120 of the pharaohs’ names. These appear in his book Linguistic Archaeology. In a personal communication to the author, Ed reported:

“ In doing my research I came upon some disturbing mis-translations by the ‘specialists’ . I found two early pharaohs whose names could not possibly be correct, because instead of names, they were curses aimed at intruders to the tomb. When I pointed this out to an archaeologist, I was brushed off with: ‘All pharaohs' names have been properly translated, the book is closed on that subject’ ” .

Do you see? If some pharaohs were not really pharaohs at all, but merely curses…

More shortening of the chronology? Oh, boy!

But that’ s not all!

Problem 5:

Comparing documents on a generation-by-generation basis, Immanuel Velikovsky matched the history of Egypt with those of Babylon, Assyria, Israel, Greece and Persia, from roughly 1400 BC to about 330 BC. His conclusion was startling: events of Egyptian history are described twice - and 600 years later they are repeated exactly, to the detail.



Boycott threat

Velikovsky’ s findings evoked an uproar. His original publisher was threatened by professors and universities.
They warned that if his books were published, there would be a boycott of the publisher's standard textbooks!



Popular history is too long

The mistake lies not with history, but with the historians. This has led to a mistaken increase in the total year count.

As a result, dates are commonly accepted which ante-date the Flood. For example, the Great Pyramid construction is usually put at 2650 BC.



“Scholars” sabotage ancient documents

And at this point the Turin Papyrus enters the picture. This ancient document was prepared during the late 18th Dynasty of the Pharaohs and included lists of all the kings of every dynasty of ancient Egypt through to the 18th Dynasty.

This papyrus was found during a temple excavation in the 19th century. The King of Sardinia carefully preserved it and entrusted it to some“ scholars” at Turin for translation.

It arrived in perfect condition, but then something went wrong. The“ scholars” destroyed or hid most of it. Why would scholars do that?

Horror of horrors, it proved the “ LONG dynastic” history of Egypt to be UNTRUE!

So to “ explain” the “ changed condition” of the papyrus, they accused the King of Sardinia of sending it “ unwrapped” .

The Palermo Stone contained a similar list. And while many “ scholars” quote from “missing parts” of the stone, “ unapproved researchers” can have access to only a few fragments. It is obvious that the stone was broken recently, since all inner edges of the fragments show recent fracture conditions.



Dating of early world history in chaos

Okay, here is confession time. Until recently, the “ experts” had me believing that Egypt sprang up around 3000 BC (and likewise all the other civilisations of great antiquity).

And since these all emerged after the Flood, then the Flood, then the dating for the Flood just had to be earlier.

Not so. It now turns out that a mistaken chronology is the framework of the scientific structure of Egyptian history. And since Egyptian chronology is the rule and the standard for the entire world history, consequently the history of the entire ancient world is now in a most chaotic state.



Our Egyptian knowledge
mostly guesswork

W.B. Emery is one of the rare few who admit how limited our knowledge of ancient Egypt really is:
“Unfortunately,” he says, “ our knowledge of the archaic hieroglyphs is so limited that reliable translation of these invaluable texts is at present beyond our power and we can only pick out odd words and groups which give us only the vaguest interpretations.” (W.B. Emery, Archaic Egypt. Penguin Books Reprint, 1984, p.59)

Yet, in the majority of books, translations and conclusions are never stated as being theory; they are stated as firm fact.



WRITTEN RECORDS

So here are the facts. We have no incontestable proof of the existence of human beings on earth more than a few thousand years ago. Dates given to man before about 3000 BC are purely arbitrary.

History, in the sense of written records, supports the Bible chronology.



Shortened history re-aligns increasingly
with despised biblical history

Adjustments and revisions of Egyptian history will tend to
considerably shorten human history in general.

A pertinent observation here. Place the Bible side by side with the confused accounts of other nations and you'll be struck by the incomparable distinction which lifts it out of the class and category of all other writings, and proclaims it of another origin, and of another kind.

The palpable difference is its objective, historical character.

Martin Anstey puts it this way:
“ The chronology of the Old Testament is in the strongest contrast with that of all other nations. From the Creation of Adam to the death of Joseph, the Chronology is defined with the utmost precision... With all other Chronologies the case is exactly the reverse. They have no beginning. They emerge from the unknown, and their earliest dates are the haziest and the most uncertain.” (Martin Anstey, The Romance of Bible
Chronology. London: Marshall Brothers Ltd., 1913, p.107)



A date for Egypt

Unfortunately, Egypt’ s monuments themselves do not begin their records before the 19th dynasty. As Anstey notes:
“ There was an older Egyptian Empire which may have come to an end about 1750 BC, and to it the pyramids belonged. But its duration can only be guessed. Canon Rawlinson thinks it may have lasted 500 years or so. This would bring us to 2250 BC, as the date of the establishment of civilization in the form of a settled government in Egypt.” (Ibid, p.95)

All authorities are agreed on this: however far we go back in the history of Egypt, there is no indication of any early period of savagery or barbarism there. Menes (Mizraim) came, dammed the waters and started building.

Some scientists contend that the Great Pyramid tells the date of its construction (foundation). Its tubular entrance passage pointed to the north polar star in 2144 BC. at the same time that the pyramid apex pointed to Alcyone, the “ pivot of the solar system” , known anciently as the “ Foundation star” . (D. Davidson and H. Aldersmith, The Great Pyramid: Its Divine Message. London: Williams and Norgate, Ltd., vol. I, 1936, p.215. Joseph H. Seiss, The Great Pyramid: A Miracle in Stone. New York: Harper and Row, 1973, pp. 83-85.
Seiss gives the year 2170 B.C.)



VAST AGES FROM ASTRONOMY NOT VIABLE

However, attempts to establish vast ages for some civilizations on the basis of astronomical data are not valid, because of the disruptions to the earth’ s orbit since the Deluge.

Immanuel Velikovsky produces evidence for such disruptions in his book Worlds in Collision, in which he states:
“ Previous efforts to build chronological tables on the basis of
astronomical calculations – new moon, eclipses, heliacal rising or culmination of certain stars – cannot be correct, because the order of nature has changed since ancient times.” (Immanuel Velikovsky, Worlds in Collision. London: Sphere Books, Ltd., 1978, pp. 371-372)

Attempts to date the Sphinx and pyramids of Giza by astronomical alignments to, say 10,500 BC, are futile for the same reason.



A date for China

The credible, self-consistent history of ancient China dates from no earlier than 781 BC. The period prior to that is unverifiable.

Chinese literary records do, however, give dynastic epochs that are identical with dynastic epochs of the book of Genesis. (Davidson and Aldersmith, pp.438,439)

There is nothing in the high antiquity of China to conflict with the conclusion that 200 years after the Deluge, Noah's
descendants arrived in northwest China. (Anstey, p.103)



A date for Sumeria

Anstey points out, regarding the Mesopotamian region:
“ The Era of the Chaldean dynasty of Berosus, the earliest which has any claim to be regarded as historical, is placed somewhere about the year B.C. 2234.” (Ibid., p.92)

This is close to the Tower of Babel date, soon after the Great Flood.



WRITTEN HISTORY - c.4,000 YEARS

No verifiable dates for written records go back earlier than about 4,000 years. Any earlier dates are based on questionable assumptions and are highly speculative.

If one is determined to push everything back further, one has to
speculate, without evidence. Keep in mind that our goal is to discover the FACTS. We want verified information.



POPULATION INCREASE - c.4,000+ YEARS

We might also cite world population growth statistics. These likewise converge on the date of the Great Flood.

It can be demonstrated, by taking the rate of population increase, per century, and working back from our present world population (6,400,000,000), that mankind could have started with 8 people not very long ago.

Statisticians agree that 150 years is a reasonable average to assume for population to double itself, having made allowance for wars, famines, etcetra. Today’ s global population, if counted back to an original 8 persons, would require slightly less than 30 doublings. By a doubling process every 150 years, this would require about 4,400 years.

Or to calculate by a different method, world population increases at about 2 percent per year. Let’ s be conservative and halve it to an increase of 1 percent per year.

On average, every 82 years (through wars, diseases and natural disasters), half the population is wiped out.

Using this formula, over 4,350 years, how many people should we have now? - 7.3 billion. How many people do we have? - 6.4 billion.

Using the same formula, the population after 41,000 years would be 2 x 1089 (That’ s two times ten with 89 zeroes after it!)

It can be argued that exceptional events, such as Hitler’ s massacres, plagues and natural disasters could have decimated populations. But even if HALF THE TOTAL WORLD POPULATION were wiped out, it would extend the historical span by only 150 years.

There have been periods of slow down and of rapid growth, but a continuous increase is evident throughout history.

If mankind has been around for as much as one million years, the population would have doubled only once in every 32,258 years, which is absurd.

All considered, the evidence is a pointer toward recency of the type the Bible suggests. It is entirely reasonable and scientific to trace the entire human race back to eight people some 4,350 years ago.

The data is consistent with the proposition that Noah and his family were the only humans alive after a general wipe-out of the human race.

If man was not virtually wiped out, there should be a very much greater population across the earth’ s surface.



SOMETHING BIG HAPPENED

4,000+ YEARS AGO

We have the same approximate dating from all parts of the planet.

More importantly, it comes from all types of clocks, calculations and approaches.

A coincidence? Think again. It is compelling evidence that the biblical dating is correct.

* * * * * * *

JG
------------------------------------------------------------------------





Of course this is NOT what you did learn in school…STILL the evidence speaks for themselves… don’t they?

Please feel free to make comments....

I believe that the THOUGHT is Free...

It can only be LOCKED UP by Yourself....

Take Care...

Largo

More info can be found at:

www.beforeus.com

Largo,
you are a deep (and open minded) 'thinker'... I like that about you :-)
keep up the good work!

'Because I can never see a picture of the whole horizon... who am I
... and great is He!'

hello Largo
I liked that post enough I'll have to buy J. Gray's book .

There are quite a few large Pyramids in Egypt. All have been robbed and damaged. So I don't think they had the vibes that they should have.

We all have our own views on these things. I have been on this planet for many years, and consider myself to be caring, helpfull, kind etc. All achieved without a Pyramid in sight.

It obviously appeals to you, so carry on and enjoy :-)

H