Thread: interesting reading

And the response and re-response to it is this

Originally Posted by Accontant
Good summary Brain.

I'd just like to add a few points, for those who keepo screaming "where's the proof" one way or another.
The facts, in short are:

Not paying for over a year is not in itself proof that PIPS is a scam.

Of course not.

It does mean that they are in default on contractual obligations, and if PIPS were a real company, this would be grounds for an involuntary bankruptcy proceeding.

Maybe in the real world, but the same rules do not apply within the internet.

Why not, the interenet is just a part of the real world, surely you visit reality on occasion. Every organization is subject to jurisdeiction somewhere, and in this case, it's PIPS base or operations, Malaysia. And as they are not properly registered to operate there, they do not have access to bankruptcy protection, by default they are a fraudulent business.
As PIPS is not properly registered anywhere, they are not entitled to bankruptcy protection.

YOU don't know for sure that Bryan hasn't registered the entire PIPS group under a different name.

Actually, yes I am. Just by using the information on thier website, you can establish theat they CLAIMED registration in Malaysia (didn't have it for securities sales) and Panama (expired and revoked involuntarily) as well as Brian's statement to be registered in "every place we do business (which was just a flat out lie). It is illegal for a financial service company and also for a payment proivider to attempt to hide ownership in itself both in the US and Malaysia. Disclosure laws require names of directors, their education and experience, percentage of earnings used to cover overhead and a clear stucture of fees. PIPS has none of these.
This means, from a legal point of view, that PIPs is indeed fraudulent, just because there are only two legal choices, bankrupt or fraud.

The legal rules you refer to DO NOT apply to internet program as yet, so there are more than the 2 choices you speak of.

GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) do indeed apply to internet businesses and as soon as they took one dollar from the United States, they also came under FASB standards fopr reporting as well as SEC rules for securities registration. There is an SEC exemption, but it only applies to entities where there is no central decision making (like PIPS) and are limited to less than 35 participants. A hedge fund could be exempt under certain circumstances, but all participants in a hedge fund have to be "qualified investors" with a liquid (residence doesn't count) net worth of $1Million USD and minimun investment amounts apply to them. But that's not, strictly speaking the same thing as a scam.

C&D orders from several states are not in and of themselves evidence of a scam.

And YOU really do not know whether of if Bryan complied with any or all of these C&Ds .

He has not replied to any of them, I did check that today, also, he has fines that apply and several states attornies general will be placing collection actions against PIPS and Brian personally when all the other legalities are worked out. Not much chance they'll collect, but having these actions taken effectively cuts off PIPS from having any business dealings with any banks that have branches in the USA, kind of a handicap for any international business

Again, in a legal sense, several states have ordered PIPS to cease operations in their respective jurisdictions, or provide reason they should be allowed to continue operations.

This dealt with the "advertising" of the PIPS programs in those jurusdictions and Bryan complied.

No they did not and quit trying to see if saying it enough times will make it true. At least 4 states have quite clearly called PIPS "an illegal investment scam" People are going to jail in Iowa and Pennsyvania at least for just promoting this scam, and I expect the people in North Carolina will be indicted soon

By default (not answering within the prescribed time period) PIPS has chosen to not deny these accusations and by definition admitted they were not in compliance with the laws of these jurisdictions.

So YOU say, but YOU really do not know this for sure.

As posted above, I am in fact very sure. In no state did any represenative even attempt contact on issuance of the Cease and Desist orders. In 5 of the seven states, there is no provision for appeal when a target defaults an answer, so those states actions are in fact final.

As Pips is not operating in any place right now, save for Malaysia where the operations are confined to responding to criminal enquiries, they are in a round about way no longer in non-compliance. That only leaves the places that have imposed Civil penalties and only their non payment of these fines is now non-compliant.

These fines have been disputed pending the conclusion of the BoN investigation.

You have to use a Clintonesque definition of "disputed" to say that. If you mean PIPS and their supporters say it ain't so, well yes, but as I've already said, in none of the States actions did anyone even attempt contact, and again, 5 states do not even have routes of appeal, they owe the fines, get used to it.

Outside of these states, they have not been held to be a fraud or scam in any way, at least formally. Of course, not many blue chip companies are more or less banned from operations in at least 6 states, but even that is not concrete proof that PIPS is a scam.

It's pretty difficult to attempt to prove a program is a scam WITHOUT solid facts from an investigation by a reputable agency. This will be concluded by the BoN and that will end the nonsense that you and others have posted here about PIPS.

All of the states that issued C&D orders did enough invetigation to conclude that PIPS was an illegal entity before they took any action. Now as the US does assume you are innocent until proved guilty, PIPS was given chance to dispute the allegations and conclusions of the various authorities. They did not respond and trhey got the same thing you would get if you didn't show up for court on a traffic ticket, "Found Guilty". As PIPS is overseas and the people involved are not easy for any state to actively go after, they will not take any further action UNLESS for some reason Brian is foolish enough to be caught in the United States or an extriditable country. The facts are in, surely not as good as they could be with a trial in the US, but as they were not disputed, legally they were good enough. An undisputed C&D is legally equal to a consent decree and just as binding.

Next, on the constant bickering about whether PIPS hasd money, or if the banks have frozen it et al....Both sides are right. The banks have indeed frozen PIPS assets, so yes, they do have money. Depending on who you believe, it's anywhere from $120K USD to $21M USD, but it doesn't really matter.

YOU AREN'T EVEN CLOSE!!! and YES it does matter!

It only matters if you think you will be getting back 2 cents on the dollar or 2 mills, but as my numbers show you, unless Brian has secretly aquired about 40% of the Fortune 500s revenue for the year, the money is not there. What he has, wherever he has it, is just scraps. Tell me what you think he's doing now that generates $80 Million dollars a day, (and in less than 30 days that number will have grown to $92 Million, by June it will be larger than the GDP of France, by next year at this time, larger than the GDP of France, Suadi Arabia and Great Britain combined) Did he stike oil in Nila?
In order to be solvent to it's lenders/members/investors/suckers it would need just shy of $4Billion USD at least, if you're one of the truely naive who thinks your ROL is still growing. At 2% daily ROL, it needs to generate $80 Million USD EVERY DAY to keep your ROL going, and that increases every day, too. I don't think anyone is deluded enough to imagine that PIPS is generating that kind of cash now, or ever did.

Well, there have been and will continue to be many who can generate that kind of return for certain periods of time. Talking with some long time traders who have been operating for years, they conclude that it is YOU who is deluded.

The numbers Brian needs to make DAILY now are getting big enough that the trading volumes will show if he wins or losses on a given day, within a few months, he will either have to be losing all the time, or he will not have anyone left to trade with, he would have won all the money in the market. ANd of course, Brian always said trading was less than 2% of his business. Where is the rest of it coming from? That, unlike everything else is in fact evidence of a scam, because no business was ever contemplated by the principals of PIPS that could even come close to making that kind of cash.

Offline businesses .......you're right. .

I doubt that, but given it's even remotely true ( a more realistic number is .2%) it's up one day down the next, there are no such things as winning streaks in trading for a very simple reason, Short Term Trading has no fundemental analasys. John Geutfreund (former CEO of GOldman Sachs and one of the best traders in history, which by the way amounts for him to have been right over 23 years to the tune of 3 billion dollars) wrote once that the trick of trading is to make a hundred trades an hour and be right 51% of the time. Take just your investment and figure out how many trades you'd have to do and be right 51% of the time to make what Brian promised you. Now think about that a mionute, because it wouldn't matter if it's you or Brian doing the trades, someone has to be right 51% of that many tries for you to get that return. If brian does it, he has toi do even more, becuase he isn't doing it for free. (acutally, he isn't doing it at all)

That is, not even compounded, 29.2Billion dollars annually, a little more than enough to buy Ford, GM and Toyota, so PIPS is either not what we've been told, or much bigger than we ever thought. Anyone who believes the latter needs help.

We'll remind you of this when PIPS is back restructured and caught up with withdrawals.

And at that time, PIPS will be at the top of the Fortune 500. The amount of Money needed to generate that amount of ROI is close to 30% of the total US economic output for a year. Hell, he won't be a company anymore, he'll be a sovereign country. All he's need to do is buy an island somewhere, declare Independence and join the UN.

To those who are saying that BNM has been investigating for X amount of time, and hasn't found anything yet, you're wrong. When you investigate something, and it's legit, it only takes a few days, a few weeks at most. I work at one of the 5 largest companies in the world (Ford Motor) and our annual audit takes about a month, give or take. When a companiy makes notice that their 10K filing is going to be late, it's never because they found such good news that it'll take longer to count all the profits. The longer it goes, the more they're finding wrong, this is almost universally true in accouting. I'll give a dollar to anyone who can find a publicly held company that had it's stock price rise when they announced they were filing late. (It has never happened, I checked) It takes much longer to check out the things wrong than it dioes to say everything is "A-OKAY"

Again, offline bussinesses are very different than online trade programs. You can believe whatever you wish....the proof will be when Bryan pays EVERY pending withdrawal.

I have made my living in Accounting, I have praticed it, taught it, done it for small companies and for the 4th largest company in the world, I don't "believe whatever I wish" I know this. The proof you speak of, "when Bryan pays EVERY pending withdrawal" is not coming.

I do know the original poster, he teaches at Xavier University in Ohio. I thought it might be him, wasn't sure until that post.

Originally Posted by soaringeagle

Hine, again, your post is appreciated.

Largo, not sure what "small box" you are referring to with regards to my post. You are a self-proclaimed know-it-all on the forums, and funny, you just started another thread talking about accepting other's view points, yet you here you are, again slamming me. You can't even follow what you suggest others do (be accepting), which is very sad hypocrisy. I am a very open-minded person who is very capable of thinking outside the box. I support Bryan, but I do not and will not worship him as if he is deity. He is not. And he has made some very, very serious mistakes.

While TG can be a vile place, not every person that posts there is a troll, or a bad person. In fact, from what I recall from past threads in this and other forums, there were a lot of PIPS supporters who used to post there and defend PIPS. You are so caught up in your arrogance that you failed to see the good in the post at the beginning of this thread which was actually more supportive of PIPS than not. Most of you just saw "from TG" and immediately closed your minds and put down both the person who brought it here, as well as the author of the TG thread. Shame on all of you who did that.

Style, I am fed up with your hostility. You are truly one of the most argumentative and nasty people on any forum I've seen you on. You are quick to jump on the bandwagon, call people childish names and put them down, yet I've yet to see you contribute anything worthwhile in any of your posts. Grow up. And if anyone should go, it is you, not me. Enough of your BS. And don't try to bait me, I will not lower myself to engage in your petty garbage and mud-slinging. It is ugly.

Let the people judge who is hypocritcal....HOW...

Just read my posts and COMPARE to yours...
I'M not the one who is doing the bashing....
I post DIFFERENT views....yes...
Bashing others ...NO...

The one doing all the bashing....well folks...it's on print...

Regards

Largo