Thread: Is it over

Originally Posted by hzchoice2

You know, there is one thing that strikes me as significant in all of this. If Bryan had set out to scam all of us, it seems to me he would have been smart enough to take the money and run, rather than go through all the pure, unadulterated hell he has gone through. I am not in his head and I am not in direct contact with him, but I personally do not feel that he deliberately set out to cheat anyone. Twice, once in Golden Womb and then again in PIPS I received exactly what was promised because Bryan was in a position to do it. Sure, it would have been great if it could have gone on as projected, but that's water under the bridge.

I agree that Bryan could have handled things differently, but I know from experience that when you are hit hard and the pressure is on, you don't always make the wisest decisions. I personally hope that Bryan brings this through and shows the naysayers and critics what's what.

The bottom line is nobody will know until BNM makes their move! We can speculate until kingdom come, but that doesn't change one thing.

So we still wait!!

I don't think he originally set out to be a scam artist at first either...but, somehow, as all the stuff begin to hit the fan, he seems to have lost his way.

Well said GettyAlexNeil.

thelema

No, it's not over yet. Bryan says that he is still trying to get PIPS back online (yes, after his "last post") and is going to keep trying to make 10 x 5 work.

As far as who he's helping with the charity work, please keep in mind that it's easy to say that he should help the pipsters for selfish reasons. My family and many of my friends have been hurt by this and I am in contact with many who were completely devastated by the whole thing. Count me in that basket.

From Bryan's point of view, however, take into account who he's been helping. The Isabellamina Foundation received over $450,000 a month from PIPS while it was alive. If the parents of a child in Manilla can't afford the children, they cast them to the street. Pimps take these children in, as young as 3 years old, and prostitute them out. They have terrible living conditions and no education. The are brought up as work horses and prostitutes. The Isabellamina Foundation set up a clean environment to take these children in, give them shelter, food and an education. Even with all that I've been through in the past year, and continue to endure, I can't imagine that kind of life. I spoke with one of the administrators and the descriptions were just sickening. These were the lives that Bryan was trying to change. There's no comparison.

Bryan has faults as any of us do. His life was devastated this last year as much as most any of the Pipsters. When I consider it from his standpoint, I can't imagine how depressing it would be to go from where he was to where he is. Then add about 300,000 people world wide trying to get an update and there's nothing of substance to give. One of Bryan's biggest faults was communication and even though I still support Bryan, I fault him here more than most. We told him repeatedly that if he would just say SOMETHING, even if it was just to tell us that there is nothing to tell, that it would be better than nothing at all. BN is giving hiim absolutely nothing and if they won't give him information, I can't imagine them answering anything for anyone else. Bryan does not feel that a message of no substance is worth of writing at all. I still disagree.

As far as starting a new program under a different name, I understand all of the legal issues, popularity issues, and desperation that led to it. Personally, I probably would try to find another way to get by until the BN investigation is over, but each of us make our decisions in different ways. There are things that he knows in his situation that we aren't privvy to and it could be that, from his perspective, he felt this was the best way to earn what he needed.

I spoke with Marek by phone just after this whole name thing went down and I understand Marek's perspective as well. Marek asked me to PM him some things and then immediately shut off my private messaging, so I'm not sure what that was about. Marek DOES understand, however, some of the reasons that one might go by a different name, seeing as how neither "Marek" nor "Admin" is his real name either. I don't feel that this makes Marek a liar, however, and I don't feel that these quotes like "Bryan lied about everything" is founded on anything of substance. I've read where people say the businesses weren't registered, for example, but many of us saw the registration documents.

Human psychology is such an interesting thing and as I read the forums, I can see how just about everyone can say all of these things from different perspectives and I can't say that any of them are wrong...just different opinions. Right now there is only one simple truth regarding the future of PIPS: We have to wait and see what the Bank Negara says before we know if it's over yet. Until then, all the facts are on the moon.

v/r

Thumper

Originally Posted by Thumper

No, it's not over yet. Bryan says that he is still trying to get PIPS back online (yes, after his "last post") and is going to keep trying to make 10 x 5 work.

As far as who he's helping with the charity work, please keep in mind that it's easy to say that he should help the pipsters for selfish reasons....
v/r

Thumper

Good post Thumper, and appreciated, but your statement regarding "selfish reasons" are skewed...not screwed, skewed. There are no absolutes, per se, and definitely not when it comes to communication of an opinion. In other words, it is not balanced at all to allow yourself to believe that all persons who would want Bryan to contribute to the aid of a membership in his relation should do so out of "selfish reasons." Even if all or any portion thereof did, it would still be none of your business. Everybody stands or falls on their own merit, have their own life to live. Nobody in their right mind should give a damn about someone else's opinion as to their so-called motives, as long as they are not violating the rights to live peacably and productively of others. Keeping perjorative and judgemental insinuations of other people's motives does not contribute to a balanced point of view. My opinion only.

thelema

Good point, Thelema. Noted.

I did not mean to imply that EVERYONE who has said it has said it out of selfish reasons. I have read it posted from several, however, who I know for a fact are not in as bad a condition as others and are just disgruntled that they haven't got their money out yet. I understand their perspective, again, but always hope that they'll hold their tongues until the conlusion of the investigation.

As another stated on here, I was raised believing that if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. The only time I violate that is if what I have to say is the truth, and then it doesn't matter how not-nice it is.

v/r

Thumper

I agree wholeheartedly Thumper. Have a good one.

thelema

Originally Posted by Thumper

No, it's not over yet. Bryan says that he is still trying to get PIPS back online (yes, after his "last post") and is going to keep trying to make 10 x 5 work.

As far as who he's helping with the charity work, please keep in mind that it's easy to say that he should help the pipsters for selfish reasons. My family and many of my friends have been hurt by this and I am in contact with many who were completely devastated by the whole thing. Count me in that basket.

From Bryan's point of view, however, take into account who he's been helping. The Isabellamina Foundation received over $450,000 a month from PIPS while it was alive. If the parents of a child in Manilla can't afford the children, they cast them to the street. Pimps take these children in, as young as 3 years old, and prostitute them out. They have terrible living conditions and no education. The are brought up as work horses and prostitutes. The Isabellamina Foundation set up a clean environment to take these children in, give them shelter, food and an education. Even with all that I've been through in the past year, and continue to endure, I can't imagine that kind of life. I spoke with one of the administrators and the descriptions were just sickening. These were the lives that Bryan was trying to change. There's no comparison.

Bryan has faults as any of us do. His life was devastated this last year as much as most any of the Pipsters. When I consider it from his standpoint, I can't imagine how depressing it would be to go from where he was to where he is. Then add about 300,000 people world wide trying to get an update and there's nothing of substance to give. One of Bryan's biggest faults was communication and even though I still support Bryan, I fault him here more than most. We told him repeatedly that if he would just say SOMETHING, even if it was just to tell us that there is nothing to tell, that it would be better than nothing at all. BN is giving hiim absolutely nothing and if they won't give him information, I can't imagine them answering anything for anyone else. Bryan does not feel that a message of no substance is worth of writing at all. I still disagree.

As far as starting a new program under a different name, I understand all of the legal issues, popularity issues, and desperation that led to it. Personally, I probably would try to find another way to get by until the BN investigation is over, but each of us make our decisions in different ways. There are things that he knows in his situation that we aren't privvy to and it could be that, from his perspective, he felt this was the best way to earn what he needed.

I spoke with Marek by phone just after this whole name thing went down and I understand Marek's perspective as well. Marek asked me to PM him some things and then immediately shut off my private messaging, so I'm not sure what that was about. Marek DOES understand, however, some of the reasons that one might go by a different name, seeing as how neither "Marek" nor "Admin" is his real name either. I don't feel that this makes Marek a liar, however, and I don't feel that these quotes like "Bryan lied about everything" is founded on anything of substance. I've read where people say the businesses weren't registered, for example, but many of us saw the registration documents.

Human psychology is such an interesting thing and as I read the forums, I can see how just about everyone can say all of these things from different perspectives and I can't say that any of them are wrong...just different opinions. Right now there is only one simple truth regarding the future of PIPS: We have to wait and see what the Bank Negara says before we know if it's over yet. Until then, all the facts are on the moon.

v/r

Thumper

"One of Bryan's biggest faults was communication and even though I still support Bryan, I fault him here more than most."

Thumper,
It is good to here from you and see that you are still around. I emailed you back on 6/6/2006 but didn't get a reply from you. It would be nice if you would communicate with us on the status of our money we invested in the DBR pool.

V/R,
Chris

It seems to me that a number of you have a very simplistic method of appraising things.

How many of you have even been bothered to read through the Humble request thread for example and have given serious consideration to what has been presented? I have to say that judging from the comments here not many of you have.
Some people consider the thinking for ourselves process to be a laborious task and choose the easy way out by swallowing what is fed to them hook line and sinker.
Thinking appears to have gone out of style these days and far too many of us sit in front of our TV’s and monitor screens and suck it all in like Zombies. The man says run and we run, the man says shut up and sit down and like well-trained little zombies we do as we’re told. Resisting the zombie chant guarantee’s being labeled a weirdo, a fool or a misguided anti social etc.
If we all had to take a written test on what is known about PIPS and what has taken place over the past two years I’m certain quite a few people, well many that contribute to this forum lately would fail to get a passing grade. And yet they feel so competent to take on the positions of Judge, Jury and Executioner – Interesting!

People present facts. Facts are definitely interesting. Facts are truth and truth = reality. Reality is the ultimate objective, but whose reality?
The truth is there is but one reality.

When providing testimony in a court of law it is required to swear to state the truth, the WHOLE truth and nothing but the truth. The law demands the whole truth because the law knows that the process of assembling a true and complete picture can be manipulated when it is provided with selected bits of the truth with the intention of creating a false impression. This still applies regardless of any attempt to subvert the process or not.

We have a few facts regarding the PIPS situation. Some of the facts point to PIPS and Bryan Marsden favorably whilst others indicate the opposite might be the case. Either way we have the option of forming an opinion but…
the overriding fact and one that I maintain cannot be disputed is that even after all this time with all the endless discussions with theories and predictions interlaced with downright lies at times and of course those little bits of facts that have been presented on this forum, bottom line is that we don’t know a whole lot more than we did since BNM froze everything and launched the investigation.

Bank Negara has described this PIPS case as being complex. I have no doubt it is complex and I have reason to believe there is much more to it.

THE WHOLE TRUTH has yet to be revealed and as sure as little eggs the complete picture of reality shall turn out to be somewhat different from what has been presented up to now. Some of this prediction is based on my opinion, some of it is not!
All I am really suggesting is that it is far too premature to arrive at any certain conclusion.
All that can be said has now been said. The only thing left now is to wait for what Bank Negara has to say and then take it from there.
In the meantime lets keep an open mind to any possibility and simply leave it that.

quote:
From Bryan's point of view, however, take into account who he's been helping. The Isabellamina Foundation received over $450,000 a month."end quote"


that is not true, they receive the first payment and that was it. All other payments were not forthcoming.

Quote"
I seem to recall press releases and newspaper reports from, if my memory serves me correctly, the Phillipines where a school was set up/furnished with Pips money. Is this correct?


That was what the money was supposed to have been used for. In fact I believe a property was purchased in the Phillipines and some demountable buildings were planned, but the whole project failed. Marsden promised an initial payment of $500,000 (USD) and monthly payments of $250,000 thereafter. The payment of the initial sum was very much delayed and I understand was paid spasmodically and only after much prompting. The follow up payments were never paid.

No classes were set up and not one of the street kids of Manilla was benefited.

The person in charge of liasing between the UN and Marsden, was a great supporter of Pips and Marsden and even put some of his own money in it. He subsequently lost his job with the UN over the debacle, when he was unable to convince Marsden to pay the money in accordance with the agreed schedule which resulted in the collapse of the program. He of course lost his money in Pips and is now quite destitute, having been unable to get another job. "end Quote"

Jack

I'm dredging my memory here...trying to remember what came from who. I know that it was Gary who told me "$450,000 a month" and didn't sound very happy about it at the time. Gary has out-right lied to me before, but I never questioned his count of the Isabellamina Foundation. I'm trying to remember everything that the board administrator had told me, but the stories of the living conditions for the children there stands out most in my mind. I don't think we discussed the financials at that point. This was in March of 2005.

It sounds as though I'm incorrect about that part, but I know Bryan's intent (at least at that time) and that is a major factor of why I wish the best for him even now.

v/r

Thumper