Thread: the faith in a religion

Well, it's good you plan on obeying the Lord in your giving because you don't seem to obey him in any other area. And if you thought I was questioning your giving or who you give to, you have once again very sadly missed the point. But then again, you've done that quite abit haven't you?

God leads you to post! Very interesting. You've contradicted his Word many times and yet you claim to be his writer? Amazing. I wish I were that spiritual.

If you don't want to call Clement a false prophet I can handle that, but you won't even acknowledge he's been wrong many many times, which would of course prove him false. And yet you still think he hears from the Lord? Amazing.

So now it appears I'm sowing discord. I'm not the one taking Scriptures out of context or avoiding them all together. This isn't some trivial matter with nary a consequence; and yet, despite what you say, you approach it as a light thing. Your actions scream disdain for God's Word.

In short, you're making a mockery of Christianity and leading people into deception with your false humilty. Yes, as you said, many of your words are vain. Unfortunately, you don't seem to see the need to stop talking!

Many times people have tried to warn and educate you about this wicked man, and you continue to turn your head. It's gone on long enough now that if your pastor, or whoever, knew the extent of your rebellion, even though you're a Christian, he'd have to (or should) ask you to leave the Church because of your infectious rebellion and corruption. "Turning you over to Satan for the destruction of your flesh" I believe is the [para]phrase. You need to repent and sit at Jesus' feet and learn of him for a good long while. Consider yourself as having been reproved. Selah.

Mr. A.
Perhaps YOU need to sit at Jesus' feet a while. That was pretty funny.

I don't hear Jesus' words when I read your post. I hear the accuser of the brethren. And I have power and authority over him in the name of Jesus.

I was obedient, that's all that matters!!!

The Word says to bless those that curse you, and you seem to be ****ing curses towards me for whatever reason (though with the accuser of the brethren at work in you, I can guess the reason) not only on this forum, but on the other one as well, but I will do as the Word says to do and say God Bless You.

Always twisting things around...I guess it'll never end.

Mr. A. I recognize this for what it is-"A spiritual battle." Not one against flesh and blood. I am not against "YOU", I don't even know you. The Lord does. He knows ME, to.

Be blessed.

This is only a "spiritual battle" in the sense that you choose to reject the whole counsel of God's Word on the matter. It's not as if you are overwhelmed with problems and calamity and you're struggling to maintain a faith and trust in the Lord; rather, you have simply made a decision not to believe God's Word. It's that simple. And you are accountable.

Worse, your publicizing your beliefs which are frought with error and so in the end your providing a great disservice. I'm sorry that you can't see Kim Clement for what he is, but the fact that you can't see it doesn't change the fact that he still is (a false prophet).

Having said all of that, I should say this...

This is not fun for me. I don't enjoy it. This isn't pleasant. But at the same time, I'm compelled by love's sake to try and protect God's people from things that would destroy them - whether they see it or not. Selah.

It's not as if you are overwhelmed with problems and calamity and you're struggling to maintain a faith and trust in the Lord;

You are actually wrong about that. That's why I spend a lot of time in prayer and Worship...because I AM overwhelmed with certain issues.

I don't see any good coming from a debate. BTW, I have read Twisted Scriptures, and The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, among other books that have been helpful in MY own walk trying to discern truth from falsehood. Like I said before, I don't know you, but the Holy Spirit does. If you were as sensitive to Him as you claim to be, you would know me by the Spirit, for He is alive in me, and you would know my heart.

I have never said or insinuated that you weren't a Christian. There's no doubt in my mind you're a sister. It's just that your wrong in a very bad way - a way which has the tendency to lead people astray and so that's why I have to call you on it.

I don't ever recall ever making a comment about how sensitive I was or wasn't to the Holy Spirit. So where did that come from? What I am doing is comparing what you profess to God's Word, and you're lacking.

So if your heart was right, in this area, then you would stop making excuses and twisting Scripture to justify this fool's proven and well-documented inability to hear from God.

You know. You probably think I'm your worst enemy, but in all reality, I'm probably one of your best friends. I know this may be new and I certainly know it's not popular. But if you love the Lord and his people then you will endeavor to protect them, even from themselves.

I am truly sorry to hear that you are having problems and I am more than willing to be of as much help as I can in whatever way that I can. But the simple truth of the matter is that this condoning of false prophets needs to stop. Not because I said so, but because you're willing to believe God's Word. Selah.

I don't ever recall ever making a comment about how sensitive I was or wasn't to the Holy Spirit. So where did that come from? What I am doing is comparing what you profess to God's Word, and you're lacking.

It came from MY sensitivity to the Holy Spirit, knowing He does not attack or condemn the way you have done, and if you were sensitive to Him, YOU would know how to speak to another fellow Christian properly.

I understand your attempt to shield or protect others from false prophets. I am not saying there are NONE, for I believe they abound. Can you name ONE prophet today we should listen to and pay attention to? People that are heresy hunters do not believe there are true prophets today AT ALL. You put out some good links for people to form their own judgement about Kim themselves. Let's leave it at that.

I have continually used God's Word as the standard, and you say that I'm attacking and condemning. Yet, you turn right around and indirectly insinuate that I'm a heresy hunter.

One final question. A response isn't required. If you believe that there are false prophets today, in fact many of them, then by what standard do you judge them? I mean, the two main chapters in the Bible that teach us how to discern them you disregard to justify Kim Clement. And so I was just curious to know what chapter or verses you do use?

Moving along, between posts I prayed that the Lord would minister to you about the problem or situation or whatever it is that's afflicting you or your family(?). Tomorrow when I wake, probably after I brush my teeth though , I will pray one more time. I pray you find peace with your situation.

You want to leave it alone, okay. We'll leave it alone. Adieu.

Matt. 7:15-20

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Discern by Fruits, Not Gifts

True prophets obey Jesus' teachings. Like the false prophets of old (Jer 6:13-14; 8:11; 23:13-17; Ezek 13:1-16; Mic 3:5-8), those Matthew warns against in 7:15 probably proclaim a gospel of false peace, an easy way that neglects God's true demands (vv. 13-14; France 1985:147). Matthew elsewhere warns against false prophets (7:22; 24:5, 24) and apostate Christians and leaders in the church (24:12, 48-51). Jesus elsewhere applies the present denunciations of fruitless trees against the religious leaders of his day (12:33; compare 3:8, 10; 21:19; 23:3), but because his words in this context address prophets (which most Pharisees thought no longer existed in their day), one suspects that Matthew wants Christians of his own generation to take notice.
Jesus' words are not only polemic against enemies of the faith from the outside; they are also warnings to us who claim to be Jesus' followers. We dare not restrict the title "hypocrites" to Jesus' religious contemporaries (6:2, 5, 16; pace Did. 8:1-2); God's subsequent servants may share the same fate (24:51). This passage presents us with several lessons.
False Prophets and Their Teaching Pose a Real Danger to Believers (7:15)
They are like hungry wolves who disguise themselves as sheep. People in Jesus' day could disguise themselves in sheepskins in the hope of being taken for stray dogs or other animals (Jos. War 3.192). Jesus' image is, however, more graphic than that, employing hyperbole: wolves do not wear clothes, and changing one's hide was a metaphor for the impossible (Jer 13:23; Jub. 37:20). By coming in sheep's clothing, the false prophets pretend to be sheep (Acts 20:29-30) though they are in fact hungry wolves who have come to prey on sheep (compare Mt 10:16).
Some denominations that once evangelized peoples and held orthodox teachings now encompass a much wider range of moral and spiritual teaching, and many movements that remain orthodox in general nevertheless remain susceptible to dangerous winds of doctrine. We who should be challenging unjust reasoning in the world instead often find ourselves fighting a defensive battle within our own ranks. For the sake of the flock, we must exercise discernment, especially within the church.
Evaluate Prophets by Their Fruits (7:16-20) These false prophets (v. 15) claim to have prophesied, exorcised and effected miracles by Jesus' name (v. 22). Although Matthew is surely charismatic in a positive way (compare, for example, 5:12; 10:8, 40-42; 23:34), here he challenges false Christian charismatics whose disobedience Christ will finally reveal (10:26). Although some could prophesy and work signs by demonic power (for example, 2 Thess 2:9; Rev 13:13-16; compare Jer 2:8; 23:13), one could also manifest genuine gifts of God's Spirit yet be lost (1 Sam 19:24).
Once we acknowledge that God can inspire people to speak his message (and this would apply to gifts like teaching as well as prophecy), how do we discern his genuine representatives? Like his follower Paul, Jesus subordinates the gifts of the Spirit to the fruit of the Spirit (compare 1 Cor 13) and submission to Jesus' lordship (1 Cor 12:1-3). Jesus' words about fruit thus refer to repentant works (Mt 7:21; 3:8, 10), recalling Jesus' ethical teachings in 5:21-7:12.
Much of today's church may miss out on prophecy altogether, which is not a healthy situation (1 Thess 5:20). Prophecy remains a valid gift until Jesus' return (1 Cor 13:9-12), and we should seek it for our churches (1 Cor 14:1, 39; Grudem 1982; Keener 1996:79-130). But wherever the real is practiced, the counterfeit will also appear (a phenomenon I as a charismatic have witnessed frequently; compare 1 Cor 14:29; 1 Thess 5:21).
An adulterous minister may exhibit many divinely bestowed gifts-sometimes because God is answering the prayers of people in the congregation-but such ministers are unworthy of our trust as God's spokespersons as long as they continue in sin. Yet Jesus wants us to look even closer to home. Do we become so occupied with "the Lord's work" that we lose sight of the precious people God has called us to serve? Do we become so preoccupied with our mission and our gifts that we neglect a charitable attitude toward our families and other people around us?
Yet the image of the tree and the fruit also reminds us that behavior flows from character, and in Christian teaching character comes through being born again rather than merely through self-discipline (see Odeberg 1964:72). Our own best efforts at restructuring unregenerate human nature are doomed to failure (Gal 5:19-21). By contrast, a person transformed by and consistently dependent on the power of God's Spirit will live according to the traits of God's character because of God's empowerment, just as trees bear fruit according to their own kind (Gal 5:18, 22-23).
God Will Expose Our Hearts on the Day of Judgment (7:21-23)
Some people claim to accept Jesus as a great teacher, but no more than a teacher. Yet a central component of Jesus' teaching is the revelation of his identity, and in this passage as in Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus claims the role of final judge.
Churchgoers today are no more automatically saved than those who ate with Jesus in the past (as is often noted, attending a church no more makes one a Christian than entering a garage makes one a car). Not those who claim to "know" Jesus but only those who do the Father's will have any claim on Jesus (12:50). Jesus thus borrows biblical language for righteous enmity toward the wicked (Ps 6:8; 119:115) to banish them from his presence (Mt 7:23; compare 7:19). I never knew you is a formal repudiation of the person (25:12; compare 26:70, 72, 74; France 1985:149).

BibleGateway.com- Commentaries » Matthew

Thanks for the prayers. He is taking care of me in the midst of hell on earth at times.