Yes I do believe there is a spirit of hate in the world.

The spirit of hate is as dangerous as any disease, and has the same effect. Righteous anger has a different accent. The language you are speaking is evil. Your wards aren’t meant to instruct or heal or give light. Your wards are meant to rob steal and destroy. They are meant to infect like the venom of a snake bite. And like the terrorist who don’t care who gets hurt by their bombs, you don’t care who gets hurt by your words. It’s the same old spirit that’s been in the world for about 6,000 years. And like the terrorist who think they are defending all that is good and even holy with their murderous acts, I’m sure you believe what you are saying is some how helpful. I do not agree with of what you are implying, but mostly I’m amazed that you don’t know what spirit you allow to speak through you. You really can’t tell, can you. May I show you what he looks like? He looks like this...> :evil:

I used to be very religious, but now I am an atheist. I used to belive in "spirits of", but not any more. (However, I know that my personal belief does not make something so, it is just MY belief). Anyway, I do strongly believe in brainswashing. (I used to be in a cult.) Brainwashing is not like the stuff you see in science fiction movies, but brainwashing is keeping people away from all other influences, and then using big carrots and sticks (like heaven and hell), to keep people as your little unquestioning robots. This is how Jim Jones was able to make 900 people kill themsleves and their families. This is how David Koresh was able to get young moms to sit in a burning buildig and burn to death with their children. Brainwashing is more powerful than the instinct of self-preservation. (Only when I was not afraid of going to hell was I able to leave the cult.) Whether or not terrorists have an actual Demon of Hate, they are also using brainwashing. I think brainwashing needs to be exposed, and somehow "brainwash" the next generation into love and tolerence.

If the terrorists had their way, do you think they would stop at trying to destroy the Western world? It is already obvious that they think that killing Muslim civilians in the name of Allah is okay. I think they will not stop until the whole world is annihilated except for their own little twisted group. Therefore I think that Muslims and their leaders also need to be more visiable and stand up in the fight against terrorism.

(P.S. Even though I am an atheist, I am not down on religion. I just wish religons could learn to live and let live, and all worship peacefully. Religion puts a lot of character and integrity into people, usually. But I partner with ANYONE, Sanctified or even Satainic, if they would stand up to Terrorism.)

We wash our body, why not our mind? I think the right kind of brain washing would be good for every one. The key words are, "the right kind' of brain washing. As in you well know the truth and the truth will set you free. I do not fear hell because I have received God's gift by grace through faith, and my life now is hid in Christ, in God. I believe and understand these verses.

Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Col 2:10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Got to go the wife calls, I'll share more later if you want.

Wow, this is a pretty interesting topic. This is the first time that I have been here to read it.

I see Christianity as a slow and quiet acceptance of a compelling truth.

The technique of brainwashing is to use coercive techniques: peer pressure, sleep deprivation, food deprivation, withdrawal from outside influences, violation of personal space and personal boundaries, arbitrary absolutes, loss of personal wealth and the freedom it brings, and constant bombardment of a preselected message. These techniques result in disorientation, realignment, and finally acceptance of a belief system that keeps the adherants bound by fear.

But Christianity is not like that at all. Jesus said, ""If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." - John 8:31-32 The purpose of a cult is to imprison someone against their will. But the purpose of Christianity is to set them free.

I am always astounded by the contrast between radical Islam, and committed Christianity. Radical Islam blows up hospitals. Christianity builds hospitals where there weren't any before. Radical Islam cuts off the arms of their enemies. (Somalia, Rwanda). Christianity sends in missionaries to treat and heal the wounded. Radical Islam stones women for committing adultery. (The man is almost never stoned) Christianity tells the woman that she can be forgiven and that she can start over again with a brand new life.

Terrorist win converts at the end of bayonet. Christians win converts with school books, hospital beds, and new wells for the village. One of these two philosophies is going to win this battle of civilizations. I think we should begin praying that the right one wins.

- TwiceWise

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Originally Posted by Twicewise

Wow, this is a pretty interesting topic. This is the first time that I have been here to read it.

I see Christianity as a slow and quiet acceptance of a compelling truth.

The technique of brainwashing is to use coercive techniques: peer pressure, sleep deprivation, food deprivation, withdrawal from outside influences, violation of personal space and personal boundaries, arbitrary absolutes, loss of personal wealth and the freedom it brings, and constant bombardment of a preselected message. These techniques result in disorientation, realignment, and finally acceptance of a belief system that keeps the adherants bound by fear.

But Christianity is not like that at all. Jesus said, ""If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." - John 8:31-32 The purpose of a cult is to imprison someone against their will. But the purpose of Christianity is to set them free.

I am always astounded by the contrast between radical Islam, and committed Christianity. Radical Islam blows up hospitals. Christianity builds hospitals where there weren't any before. Radical Islam cuts off the arms of their enemies. (Somalia, Rwanda). Christianity sends in missionaries to treat and heal the wounded. Radical Islam stones women for committing adultery. (The man is almost never stoned) Christianity tells the woman that she can be forgiven and that she can start over again with a brand new life.

Terrorist win converts at the end of bayonet. Christians win converts with school books, hospital beds, and new wells for the village. One of these two philosophies is going to win this battle of civilizations. I think we should begin praying that the right one wins.

- TwiceWise

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Haven't you heard of the Crusades?

Hi Sailingdom

I’m not really sure how the crusades are relevant to the discussion at hand.

1. The Crusades began in the 11th century, more than 900 years ago. It consisted of poorly armed peasants being sent out to protect the Holy Land. (If you are saying that this is typical of the kind of evangelization that Christian’s usually do, then I don’t really understand your point. There have been nearly a thousand years since then during which hospitals were built, children were fed, medicine was sent, schools were built, etc. Why would you go back nearly a thousand years in order to make some sort of moral equivalence between Christianity and the terrorists. I don’t understand that.)

2. Are you saying that the terrorists are justified in their actions because of what Christians did to them almost a thousand years ago? My ancestors were slaughtered by invading barbarian Saxon’s a thousand years ago. Does that now give me the right to find their great, great, great grandchildren and blow them up because I’m upset about what happened a millennia ago?

3. Are you saying that there is no difference between Christianity and Islam because of the crusades? I don’t understand that either. The words Islam means submit. It has the idea of a person giving up all right to themselves in order to pay complete and utter obeisance to the deity. Islam is basically, “obey or else.” Christianity means, follower of Christ. And although we may sometimes fail in that obligation that is our goal. To stand up for what is right just as strongly as he did. To spread healing and help just as vigorously. To seek out the lost and to tell them the good news of freedom through Jesus Christ. There is not a point of common ground between these two philosophies.

4. But maybe you can explain yourself more clearly. What do the crusades, that happened a thousand years ago, have to do with Muslim terrorists blowing up buildings today, or the practice of Christianity today? I simply don’t see how your comment is relevant.

Religions, that means ALL religions were only created to manipulate and control people and nothing else! All religions are kind of cults which have a "leader" and which have specific doctrines their "sheeples" have to follow. If not then you're not a "believer" or against God. The churches cleverly mastered to seperate God from man in the way that one can only find God in the church and thru the help of so called priests etc. Wasn't it Jesus who said that God is in you, in each one of us? The churches also invented the "punishing" God and the "hell" in order to make people compliant, that they have fear from God and remain dependent from the church/religion. Wasn't it Jesus who told that Heaven and Hell are in each one of us?

The last 2000 years religions and churches totally biased the belief in God, changed facts many times, left important things out (truth) and told lies over lies. (e.g. Bible or the ridiculous and false picture which came up of God as an old man with a long beard) Thousands if not millions have been killed "in the name of God" on both sides, Christianity and Islam, both are equal bad. What a perfect tool a "religion" can be, with which you can fuel hatred amongst the folks, don't you think? This all has NOTHING to do at all with the early Christianity and with the teachings of Jesus!

If the churches would tell the truth about e.g. the history of origins of mankind then ALL religions would instantly collapse like a house of cards which already now stands on weak legs. Eventually the truth will come out and folks will realize that they have been lied 2000 years long.

Us humans are divine beings, each one of us has divine characteristics, each one of us our own creator, a "small" God. Look for God in yourself and not in brick buildings, there you won't find him. The earlier y'all grasp this the earlier you will set yourself, your mind and soul, free.

Micky, my guess is that you are so cemented into what you believe that nothing I can say will change your mind. There are many people who hate the things that Jesus said, and the things that Jesus stood for, if it wasn’t so then he wouldn’t have been crucified for saying them.

You made the statement that “ALL religions were only created to manipulate and control people and nothing else.” So I must ask the following questions.

-1. Are you well verse in “All Religions”

-2. How did you learn that they were originally created in order to manipulate and control people? (Have you studied the leaders of the religions: Jesus Christ, the apostle Paul, Muhammad, Joseph Smith, Buddah, Confucius, and L. Ron Hubbard enough to know what their intentions were?

-3. As I stated above Christians, and probably some of the other religions, have built hospitals, schools, libraries, etc. Do you believe that the purpose of building these things was only to control people?

You stated that Jesus said, “God is within you.”

Can you tell me where in the Bible Jesus made this statement?

The closest that I would know is 1 Corinthians 6:19, “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?” This is saying that those who did not have the Spirit of God living in them, now do because they started to believe in Jesus. Jesus also said in John 14:6, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” Therefore the way to have God living in you is to believe in Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

You said, “Wasn't it Jesus who told that Heaven and Hell are in each one of us?”

I know of no such statement by Jesus. Hell was not the main focus of Jesus’ ministry and it should not be the main focus of organized religion. Christianity is now and always was about personal freedom. Christians believe that there are many kinds of addictions that war against the soul. It may be an addiction to power, pornography, alcohol, entertainment, money, and a hundred other things. In Luke 4:19 Jesus quoted the prophet Isaiah saying, “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” That’s what true Christianity is, “freedom for the prisoner, release for the oppressed, sight for the blind.”

You said, “the ridiculous and false picture which came up of God as an old man with a long beard.”

I don’t know of any Christian who believes that God is an old man with a long beard. In fact Christians believe that God is an invisible Spirit who can be in all places at all times. The best description of God comes from the book of Revelation 4:2-4, “behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.” The writer was clearly trying to describe something that he found incomprehensible. But this is nothing like an old man with a long beard.

You said, “Christianity and Islam, both are equal bad.”

But our discussion here is not about Islam vs. Christianity. Our discussion is about radical Islam which spawns acts of terrorism. So, if both are the same you must tell me the last time that a Christian flew a plane into a building to kill 3,000 people. You might also tell me the last time that a Christian blew up a train station, or the last time that a Christian bombed an embassy.

In addition to that you said that, “What a perfect tool a "religion" can be, with which you can fuel hatred amongst the folks.”

But Christianity is a religion of love. Jesus said in Matthew 5:43-45, “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.”

You said, “If the churches would tell the truth about e.g. the history of origins of mankind then ALL religions would instantly collapse like a house of cards.”

That is precisely the problem isn’t it Micky. If we knew the truth of origin then we could say precisely what religions are true and what religions are not. I believe that God created the heavens, the earth, and all mankind. Therefore we are accountable to him in the way that we live our lives. Other’s believe that the heavens, earth, and everything else came from a massive “Big Bang” explosion 16 billion years ago. If they are right then there is no ultimate purpose to life. Each of us should live the best that we can and when we die, we die. I suspect that you believe something else entirely. It may be that your version of the origin of mankind is right and mine is wrong. Each of these belief systems should be studied thoroughly. The worst should be thrown away, and the best kept, and believed. I have studied them, and I have kept Christianity because I believe it is the best.

You said, “Us humans are divine beings, each one of us has divine characteristics, each one of us our own creator, a "small" God.”

This seems to be a variation on the teaching of the “New Age.” The New Age teaches that we all create our own reality. That we have the power of belief in ourselves and that we can created our own truth. The problem with that is, if I was creating my own reality I would be a lot better looking in it. And in my reality Pxps would be paying out on time. (LOL)

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Feel free to keep on writing about this topic. As for me I’m starting to get weary in well doing.

- TwiceWise

Micky about your statement, “If the churches would tell the truth about e.g. the history of origins of mankind then ALL religions would instantly collapse like a house of cards.”

The theory of evolution is just a theory, and not a scientific fact. Do you think it takes faith to believe in God? But we know evolution is a fact? I find it easier to believe in God, than to believe that life came from a rock.

And TwiceWise, you do know the Bible.

Read the bible correctly and between the lines (esp. Genesis), there are many many hints on who created homo sapiens and this has nothing to do with the "Big Bang".

I have no intention to force anyone to have the same view as I do or to have the same knowledge level as I do. I am only giving hints, it's up to everyone if he's interested to dig deeper and to condcut more research. What can help is also to consider the other side of the coin. What we get presented in media and taught by schools, religions, agencies, societies etc. is a pre-formed shape which is put on people. Different pre-formed stories, facts, views, beliefs etc from which we can allegedly "freely" decide and choose from and thus suggest us the freedom of choice which in reality is none.

Problem is we don't question religions, schools, colleges, governments etc. We take it all as self-evident because we blindly believe, trust and follow "authorities". It is also called authority syndrome. "What they tell just MUST be right, heh?" How can one dare to question its own government? This is unpatriotic, communistic, fascistic and even often anti-semitic! (where most people have no clue what this word actually means...) How can one dare to question churches and religions? This is considered as blasphemous and satanic. Don't you think that coincidentally often when someone tries to scratch on truths surface the one is vehemently ridiculed, discredited, threatened and unfortunately in some cases even killed or suddenly dies of a mysterious illness? It's very convenient to mark someone as communistic or satanic and to discredit him, every deeper digging and discussion is then nipped in the bud to avoid that too many people start to question.

Good examples gives us the catholic church. If one said 200 years ago that the earth is not flat and that the earth evolves around the sun (and not vice versa) he was prosecuted and burnt at the stake. And this is a fact! Women who were very familiar with alternative medicine and healing methods have been declared as witches and also burnt at the stake. The same with many other views and "revolutions" which some of them became very normal and self-evident nowadays. Nothing has changed today. People are not burnt at the stake anymore but other, modern measures are taken instead.

People use only 10% of the brain and 80% of our DNA lie untapped. And you can be rest assured that powers to be (including religions) have no interest at all that this changes. In contrary, they are doing everything possible to prevent that informations for this leak out to public. This knowledge is only known by the powers to be who steer the world thru their puppets like politicians, agencies, industry complex, media etc.

All public information which is presented to the masses is pre-shaped, you only get ONE opinion and ONE picture. There is (still) enough literature (a lot has been forbidden) out there who also present the other side of the story. I think it is important to hear/listen to both sides so that I can decide what is true and what not, what is wrong and what is right. When I permanently only hear one side I have no choice except of believing it.

I know for sure that most can't accept everything else than what they have been taught their whole life. I don't blame them at all. Accepting anything else would destroy their world view, and this can hurt, it is uncomfortable so I leave it to the others, they will make it. It is up to you if you are willing at all to consider the other side and to hear different. If you are not willing then logically every discussion is needless and a waste of time and energy. Everyone has to decide for himself and decide which way he wants to go, everyone has to find his or her own truth, the real truth will eventually come thru.

I won't go into any argumentation any further. I am only giving hints and something to ponder. Those who agree, fine, others who don't also fine.

Hi again Micky,

It sounds to me like you have a war going on in your soul. I think you really want people to know the truth as it is and not as the world and religions tent to slant truth. And I also respect your right to decide for yourself what is the truth. I am also pleased to hear that you are willing to consider both sides of an issue.

On the issue of religion (man's attempts to please a Holy, Righteous, and Just God) verses Christianity (God providing his own sacrifice John 3:16 so man can believe God does really love him, and simply receive the work God did through Jesus's death on the cross on the behalf of man.)

So the Bible says, Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

C.S. Lewis wrote (you'll like this Twicewise) You don't have a soul...now if I stopped there I might get an argument from many. Someone might say something like, that's nuts ofcourse I have a soul. Well here's the whole quite. You do not have a soul, you ARE a soul, you have a body.

Our body Micky is for a short time, it's temporary. But our soul is eternal because man was created by God in the image of God, who is eternal. Micky our mind is programed to think in terms of time, we just can't get our mind around the concept of eternity. To even try to describe eternity we need to use a measurement of time to do it, so we say things like a billion years.

The question before man kind is can he be good enough, pray enough, give enough, sacrifice enough, pray enough, etc to satisfy a perfect God. This is the way of religion. The way of Christianity is after we heard the gospel (the GOOD news) we are now excepted by God in Christ, after we simply believed and received by grace [we did not earn it] through faith.

So the Bible says, Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Eph 1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

God did the work (it is finished) we believe and receive it for our self, and God gets all the glory.

The world says there is no God, religion says it's up to you to do the work, and Christianity says God finished the work of salvation because of His great love for ALL people. And Micky, it is up to you to decide what you believe. Christianity is the way of peace and rest, and faith, and real hope. Choose Christ and receive eternal life. Put your life in His hands and you will find peace.

The work of salvation is NOT finished:Christs mission was at least twofold,He has to come back to finish the job when there's no doubt that we can't exist without him.And that is very close.
The Soul is NOT immortal;only after we have been born again will we have the CHOICE of being immortal.We will be given two choices:we will have lived,literally TWICE.Once without God in our midst,which is here and now,and once WITH,through His Son,here on earth.The notion that "you only live once" is bogus.
But no-one who has lived before and has died is living today.God said this;only His Son is sitting at the right of Him.He will be the only One able to stop us from completely destroying ourselves and each other and His Creation.NOT we!!!
If anyone wants to know the truth,the literal truth and nothing but the truth,PM me and I'll point you in the right direction;but I can almost guarantee you won't like it,cuz it is brutal.At least,most people wouldn't.
Don't forget,though,there's the silver lining!

Any takers?

rahly you said,

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The work of salvation is NOT finished.

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But the Bible says, John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Jesus didn't say, I am finished, and when he said, "it is finished", I really do not think he was referring to his physical body, or his life.

Remember this, Mat 1:21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."

To save his people from their sin was the job God the Father gave to Jesus His Son.

Before Christ righteousness was a matter of keeping the law, but now Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

And the reason that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, is because there was a perfect sacrifice, and now the justice of God is satisfied.

Psa 85:10 Love and faithfulness meet together; righteousness and peace kiss each other.
Psa 85:11 Faithfulness springs forth from the earth, and righteousness looks down from heaven.

Because, it is finished. And that is GOOD!!!

In His death Jesus finished that work, thus it if finished. :lol:

'Fraid not,my friend.Christ MUST come back to finish the job of saving us.
Look around you and tell me this is "God's green earth"!It ain't!

Don't get me wrong;your posts aren't without substance,but in order to understand God's Word,you have to read it literally.

There've always been mis-interpretations and disagreements between different churches and religions because the words aren't taken literally,though they should be.Instead,they are interpreted,using human thought,which is not God's thought.

When Christ said it is finished,He was only referring to his mission as a human being,where He proved Himself blameless before God,and therefore capable of saving us and ruling over us with complete righteousness and Godliness.And that will only happen when there is absolutely no doubt in GOD's mind that we will annihilate ourselves.

I'm convinced 9/11 was the flash point that started the "Great Tribulation",the time of Jacob's Trouble,when night is turned into day,when knowledge has greatly increased,and people travel to and fro,and suddenly,"they were no longer safe in their ivory towers,nor on the coastlines,nor on the mountain side",etc.As reported by Peter,while emprisoned on the greek isle of Patmos.

In order for Christ to be accepted by mankind as the saviour of all mankind,mankind will have to literally SEE Him return,those who will be left alive,that is.Just think of all those who have never even heard of Christ;how will they accept Him as saviour if they have never known Him,or known OF Him?

God laid-out His Plan for ALL mankind,not only those with Christian backgrounds.Or for Israel(Do you know who all are Israel?It's not who you think,I'm sure.)

Yeah,Christ will be seen by all so all will know He is the Son of God;there is no other way.And He won't be no living idol in the Holy of Holies at Solomon's Temple,either.

Hope I didn't rain on anyone's parade.

Oh no,my friend,the job is NOT done.The next few years will be the most trying in all of human history.And almost no-one knows nor cares.
I'm not trying to pontificate,I can only tell you what I know.

We haven't been saved from our sins,yet.That's why there's war,famine,pestilence,death in our lives.And no,when you die,you DON'T go to heaven;man's heaven hasn't been created yet,only "the heavens",which is God's dwelling place,and no human who has ever lived,apart from Christ,has proven himself even worthy of SEEING God.Let alone,living with Him.
In case you don't know,it only takes one sin in your lifetime to fall short of Godly Perfection;only thanks to Christ will we ever be worthy of God's Presence in our midst.
In order to be saved from our sins,we(most of us,anyway)will have to literally be born again just like we were the first time,though into a world where there is no war nor famine nor pestilence nor death.Sin will not exist,since Christ Himself,along with His disciples,His prophets,and all of God's Saints will be governing this planet.Innocence will be the only rule,so to speak.
Those who have lived before will live again,with Christ as their Leader.And only because Christ has called them by name,not because mom and dad "loved" each other.

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'Fraid not,my friend.Christ MUST come back to finish the job of saving us.

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Yes rahly, Jesus will return, but not to save his people from their sin, he has finished that work. He will return with his bride (the church who is made up of believers from every Denomination) so the Father can estabilsh His kingdom through Jesus.

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Don't get me wrong;your posts aren't without substance,but in order to understand God's Word,you have to read it literally.

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OK...John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. I though it is finished ment just what it said. I did take it literally.

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When Christ said it is finished,He was only referring to his mission as a human being,where He proved Himself blameless before God,and therefore capable of saving us

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Yes Jesus was a perfect sacrifice (blameless before God) and not only was he capable of saving us, he did save us. Shouldn't we take this literal, Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

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As reported by Peter,while emprisoned on the greek isle of Patmos.

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John was on Patmos, not Peter.

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I'm convinced 9/11 was the flash point that started the "Great Tribulation",the time of Jacob's Trouble

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rahly I do believe we are close to the time of the tribulation, but I don't thing we are there yet. But this is just my opinion. And this is a whole different subject.

I'm going to bed now...zzzzzzzz

You are right,my mistake;John was at Patmos,not Peter.
Only the first segment of man's salvation is complete.
Yes,our fates have been sealed by the actions of Christ;that part is done.I think He was referring to the defeat of Lucifer when he said "It is finished".He was referring to his own trial before God.
If we aren't yet in the Tribulation,we are certainly at its door.
If we were saved from sin,sin would no longer be here;therefore,we have not been saved yet.We still live in sin.And sin is what is destroying us.

As for denominations,they all fall under the yoke of Mystery Babylon.Anyone who is an actual,literal Saint wasn't OF those denominations.Only God chooses who is Saint,man can't cuz he's faulted.

Christ is not the end of the Law;He is the personification of it,and He added to it on several occasions.For example:The Law states that if a man has sex with another man's wife,he has commited adultery.Christ went further and said:If you look at another man's wife with desire,you are guilty of the same in your heart(mind).Sin must be eradicated in order to live a life worthy of eternity.
He has to re-educate us all,and He'll only do that once we ALL see that we can't EXIST without Him.He has to teach every human being ever conceived,not only those who have accepted Him through their respective denominations.
Nowhere in scripture is it implied:"Christ has saved you from your sins(Law-breaking),you can go and sin your heads off now and it's allright."We still pay for our sins and the sins of others in THIS lifetime,as well as at the END of this lifetime.
I'll dig up some research and see if I can expand on this.
Sorry if I'm all over the place here,but it's late and I'm crashin' too.

Have a good rest,sowing.

hi rahly
I have to agree w/sowingseed ,I don't believe we have entered the end times yet ,but it is getting closer . look for the signs of the end times like the 2 prophets spoke of in Revelation . I see you also believe we will be here during the tribulations which many believe otherwise . I believe we will be here during that time (I would quote scripture But I am tired & don't remember the exact verses offhand) which is another reason I hope everything will be straightened out with p*** in the next year so I can prepare for the end times better ,in case it is in my lifetime.
It makes a person reflect upon the current situation in p*** about the w/drawals . Are the powers that be so against the little guy they will disrupt anything tha attempts to help them out of thier slavery to the system they have placed upon us :?: well good night all :wink:

thinksnow the end times is a cool topic...I thought you would be interested in reading this info I found in the Holman Bible Handbook. I just made a vew comments in green. I hope to find it interesting.

(12:4-13) Daniel’s Final Vision and Instructions. The angel instructed Daniel to seal up the revelation until the end times. Daniel then saw two other angelic beings standing by the river, both of whom were clothed in linen. One asked how long it would be before the revelation was fulfilled. The other responded that “a time, times, and a half a time” (probably three and a half years) would pass between the breaking of Israel’s power and the fulfillment of the vision.[Dan 12:11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.] (This is referring to a specific event that will take place. And note the time of the daily sacrifice is abolished. I believe this means that Israel will build a new temple and reestablish the daily animal sacrifices. At this time (now) in Israel daily animal sacrifices are not taking place, so that tells us we are not at that point in time yet. And Israel still has to build the new temple...this is a sign to look for.) The significance of the figure given in verse 12 (1,335 days) is unclear. In conjunction with verse 11, it implies that there would be an additional forty-five-day period before the complete fulfillment of the vision.

Matthew 24-25 comprise Jesus’ predictions of what will unfold after His death to usher in the end times. Its structure and interpretation are notoriously complex; the following is but one of several viable options.
Matthew 24:1-35 describes the signs and times of the temple’s destruction and of Christ’s return. The disciples asked about both events (v. 3), probably thinking of them as occurring simultaneously.
Jesus made clear in His reply that they are distinct. First, He reviewed a series of signs that do not herald the end but consistently characterize life in the Christian era (verses 4-14). Second, He described the horror of the actual destruction of the temple (verses. 15-20).

Third, He alluded to the subsequent “great tribulation” (verses. 21-28), which for Matthew, at least, seems to embrace the entire period between Christ’s two comings (compare “then” in v. 21 and “immediately” in v. 29).

The Return of Christ
Christ came first in the form of a servant. He will return as the Judge of all humankind (1 Thess 5:1-3; John 5:24-27). At the first coming He inaugurated His kingdom; at His second coming He will consummate His kingdom. The second coming will be physical and personal, as were His resurrection and ascension (Acts 1:10-11).
The coming of Christ will be immediately preceded by a cosmic and terrestrial distress (Luke 21:25-27). Christ’s return will bring a judgment upon the world that is sudden, unexpected, and inescapable (Matt 24:42-44). The Antichrist figure is to arise prior to the second coming. He will be decisively overthrown (2 Thess 2:1-8).
The kingdom of God, God’s rule and reign, will be consummated and fully established at the return of Christ. In some sense Christ’s redemptive kingdom is already realized in His church through the hearts and lives of believers (Rom 14:17; Col 1:13). There is also a future sense of Christ’s kingdom that is not yet realized throughout the earth and awaits the fullness of His kingship (Isa 11:9; Rom 8:18-27; Rev 20:1-6). The fullness of the kingdom, the future rule of Christ, is not identical with the final, eternal state after the establishment of the new creation, the new heavens, and the new earth (Isa 65; Rev 21). We can affirm that while the ultimate Christianization of the world will never occur, there will be a great outpouring of God’s grace in the end times as the gospel is proclaimed throughout the world (Matt 24:3-31; Rom 11:35-36). These grand truths have been systematized in four major ways referred to as postmillennialism, amillennialism, dispensational premillennialism, and historical premillennialism.

Outside of the Xian bible there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that such a person as Jesus Christ ever existed.

I am wondering if Rahly is a Jehovah's Witness or is into Armstrongism? Possibly even 7th Day Adventist. I am seeing a lot of difference between what you "know" and what is the Eternal Word of God. Seems more like you are regurgitating teaching's of Ellen G. White, Armstrong or the Watchtower! If I am wrong, let me know. Some are just into forming their own religion and interpret there own reality from parts of many other religions and belief systems. It really comes down to what you believe about God's Word. Is it inspired and the Divine revelation of God's plan for th human race or is it just a book of old letters and stories? Until that is settled you are going around in circles with no reference point. Philosophy and conjecture is opinion while God's Word is truth. If someone does not have a foundational faith in scripture and the price of redemption paid at the cross then that is the discussion at hand.

Oh. BTW Catmando. You should read the historian Josephus. Look in any bookstore. There is more data on Jesus than any figure in ancient history. Such a statement is obvious intellectual misinformation. I hope you don't do this to yourself often. There is a bevy of manuscripts , including occult literature that speak of Jesus. Even the Jewish records that taught he was a deceiver were not so foolish as to deny His existence! Believe or don't but lets not be silly.
G

Cat,
There are many non christian source if you are sincerely interested. If Josephus is not enough... There are more but I will not spend any more time on it if you are not inquiring. If it was a misinformed offhand comment then we'll drop it. The argument is less about His existence than who he was. Was He the Son of God as he claimed or was he a delusional nut or even worse... a liar and a deceiver? He cannot be a good teacher or just a prophet because He claimed to be the Son of the Most High God and the ONLY WAY to Salvation. It's worth the time to look into. Eternity is at stake.

Historical records concerning Jesus the "Christ" Messiah; records copied from the official manuscripts and scrolls, made by the senatorial courts of Tiberius Caesar, and by the Sanhedrin, in the days of Jesus, entitled "Christ," found in the libraries at Rome and Constantinople.
By: W D Mahan; M McIntosh; T H Twyman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by million$smile

Cat,
There are many non christian source if you are sincerely interested. If Josephus is not enough... There are more but I will not spend any more time on it if you are not inquiring. If it was a misinformed offhand comment then we'll drop it. The argument is less about His existence than who he was. Was He the Son of God as he claimed or was he a delusional nut or even worse... a liar and a deceiver? He cannot be a good teacher or just a prophet because He claimed to be the Son of the Most High God and the ONLY WAY to Salvation. It's worth the time to look into. Eternity is at stake.

Historical records concerning Jesus the "Christ" Messiah; records copied from the official manuscripts and scrolls, made by the senatorial courts of Tiberius Caesar, and by the Sanhedrin, in the days of Jesus, entitled "Christ," found in the libraries at Rome and Constantinople.
By: W D Mahan; M McIntosh; T H Twyman

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Mr. Smile I NEVER say anything "offhand", nor am I misinformed. All the sources you quote base their information on the Xian bible, which is the ONLY source for the Jesus cult.

The passage in Josephus has been proven to be a forgery. It very obviously is an insertion because the paragraphs above and below talk about other things.

Why did the Xian god not tell the other religions about his (falsely so-called) "son"?? Why are all the male skygods invisible? Why must the religions who trumpet Allah, Jehovah and Yahweh create a human representative to tell them about said god?

Here are a couple websites with books for YOU to read IF you dare;
www.americanatheists.org
www.freedomfromreligion.org

I've read more stuff like that than I care to admit. Since I value my time I will not spend it on a fruitless discussion with an intellectually dishonest person. Nice deflection on the Jewish historian Josephus. How about the sanhedrin records and Tiberious ceasars court records. I am sure you will not make the effort. Forgeries too? The Acts of Pilate has Records as well. These are just sources off the top of my head. I would gladly send more sources to discuss but not for those for whom no source is good enough. "Thats a forgery" can be said about any source you don't want to look into. Don't waste my time or yours. I think your beef is with God , not me. Your dare to read your athieistic literature is just sidestepping the issue YOU made about sources proving Jesus existence. Most people who don't believe at least make an attempt at an honest approach. I am not interested in any more time on this. So get in your parting shot and then I will attempt to refrain myself from answering.

The burden of proof is always on those who assert the existence of gods. After 2000+ years true believers such as yourself have not produced one scintilla of sensory evidence or rational proof for your gods.

I say to Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh and all the rest; come down to Earth and show yourselves. Then all the unbelievers will believe.

"Blessed is he who believes but does not see."

Actually,I'm into "Armstrongism";his interpretations of prophecy have been too uncanny to just simply dispel.I've been witnessing these prophecies for almost two decades;the only acid-test of a true prophet is:"Do his prophecies occur as prophesied?"
Like I said,I've been witnessing them for almost two decades,and I had a sneaking suspicion that Pope John-Paul II's successor would be German.The time is just right.Maybe I'm wrong,but I don't think so.I'm also a realist.
I've done Baptist,I've done Seventh Day Adventist,but Armstrong has never steered me wrong.Do you know who/where the Ten Lost Tribes are?I do.
As for "coming down to earth",it will be done,most likely in our lifetime.
But,don't take MY word for it.

I agree rahly Gods Israel is not in the middle east, that is the remnant of Judah.

We are in the generation of the fig tree and Jesus said that this generation will not pass till everything is fullfilled. That was right after he told us to learn the parable of the fig tree, those who understand that know what time it is.

I think the people who think Christians will be secretly raptured out before the tribulation are going to be deceived, actually they already are and will be praying for the mountains to fall on them when they realize that the one who comes first is antichrist and not Jesus because they will have worshipped the wrong saviour. One of the most important things stated over and over by Jesus was to not let anyone deceive us.

I believe the world is pretty much completely deceived and is almost ready to accept a one world government so antichrist can set up his short reign.

There are not many who will not be deceived and God has shortened the time or even the elect would be deceived and all would perish

Anything good or of God is now suspect in the eyes of the world and the ones who think that the truth is a cult are infact the ones who have the cult like mentality, they have been brainwashed and have conformed to the ways of the world. They cannot see the truth anymore, they cannot understand the Word it is just an old book to them, as God said (paraphrazing here) that if thats what they wanted he would allow them to believe a lie and so many do.

And men created GOD'S

I believe in God, I believe in Jesus. I don't believe much in organized religion as over time it has been shown again and again to be filled with deceit, and has nothing to do with God or Jesus imo.

Not long ago the US invaded and bombed the holy land "Iraq" killing thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens without purpose. We continue to bomb Iraq and its citizens without conscience.

Those responsible claim to be "Christians" they claim we must continue to murder to save ourselves from terrorism, but it seems to many, to do so, we must ourselves become terrorists in the process. Those responsible even claim to lay "freedom" at the headstones of our victims as an excuse for our behavior.

This action imo is not of God. Maybe some "Oil God", but surely not the God Almighty. Jesus imo would be against such behavior from anything I've read about how he dealt with everyone around him.

I agree, if "rapture" comes, there will be a great shock of awakening for many imo.

I recognise the bible as a great works, though as I studied how it came about years ago, I learned that "human men" translated the bible. Would they translate it to fit within their own beliefs, if any particular word was unclear to them? I think perhaps they would and did. As we all are aware, any one word can change the entire meaning of anything written. Therefore, I don't take the bible literally (word for word) though I think there are many lessons to be learned from reading anything about God and Jesus.

God saw fit to create many peoples with different types of "religious" beliefs, I can't think he would favor one over the other despite any claims of favor by God for any particular "church."

Jesus taught to turn the other cheek, not to do harm to others. If "we christians" want to be in his favor, then we should start practicing what he preached! Not the current day "false" testament of those that have financial motives to sway our hearts and minds enough to make us participate in killing our Father's children at home or around the world!

VP

Velvetpatches,

Nice post about killing and stuff, but remember Jesus said, "I come not to bring peace but a sword". So much for "turn the other cheek" eh? :roll:

If Jesus brought the sword, why was he so busy healing people, and, feeding people, instead of using the sword?

Perhaps because it was his nature to heal, and forgive, and not contribute to deceit and the behavior of harming others. As he said, forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.


VP

WE have to remember that this world that we live in is the kingdom of satan. this is his world for now, when Jesus comes back he is dealing with satan, and the Jewish nation!

Now as far as this is his kingdom, he (satan) will give you all the religion you want, BUT it will just fall short of the complete truth. Hence all the different denomonations that exist in the world, all man made.

I am Christian (a follower of Jesus), At one time I did belong to a very large and well known religion, but after years of questions being answered, with double talk and pious ideas, I decided to pickup the Bible and give it a read, and to my suprise bingo there were the answers. I began to seek out people that could help me with the Word of God. do I completely understand all of the bible, no I don't but my worldy blindness has been lifted from my eyes and the understanding of His word is much clearer then ever, and that continues today and will continue until Jesus returns.

Jesus came to save not to condem. Religion tells you, you will go to hell if you do not follow the rules and riturals of religion, and we all know we are not perfect, satan knows for sure, so the rules are broken and then you fall away from the church and begin to believe whatevery you want to make you feel good about yourself, and satan has you right where he wants you, and God gets the blame to boot!

Organized religion tries to take on the Christian lable :( even after their action show they fall short of Christianty, history will bear this out.

It's kind of funny when something bad happens, the first one they blame is God, when in fact it is satan causing the harm, and he knows God will get blamed, remember satan wants christiany to look bad in anyway he can. Take the Crusades it was a man made religion that lead the Crusades, not Christianty, although they used the name of Christianty, it was the cut throat leadership of a man made religion! And God gets the blame again:(

Jesus will come back and deal with satan and his followers when the time is right and only God knows that time. The Armstronist and the holy rollers, have made many predictions in the past when the world will end, but so far they all missed the mark (as if man knows remember, neither Jesus or the angels in heaven know only the Father knows) Yes we do have signs so all I can say is keep an eye on Isreal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by velvetpatches

If Jesus brought the sword, why was he so busy healing people, and, feeding people, instead of using the sword?

Perhaps because it was his nature to heal, and forgive, and not contribute to deceit and the behavior of harming others. As he said, forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.


VP

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I agree. According to the manuscripts the sword of the Lord is his tongue and the true Word of God. It says that the true Word cuts both ways like a two edged sword and thats what he'll use (The truth) to whip this world into shape.

Not some man made sword, that is used for killing and harming people.

Satan is the one who, kills, steals and destroys but he uses the name of God to do it so that men will hate God and his son.

Armstrongism makes no actual predictions of when things will happen,only what to LOOK for,to help determine that the time is indeed SHORT.They never ONCE implied that they knew WHEN the end will come.
And as you can likely determine on your own,the faster things happen,the faster they happen.
There's still quite a few things left to happen,be fulfilled,but as I stated already,the faster things(events)happen,the faster those events happen(come into being).The mark of the beast will be placed on every man,woman and child,in the VERY NEAR FUTURE.
I've heard of parents actually "chipping' their children,already,in the fear of them getting abducted,etc.I know one personally who is considering having his son chipped for precisely that reason,much like pets,race horses,live stock and so-on.
This bio-chip would act as proof of identity,passport,driver's licence,bank info,CC info,medical records,dental records,credit rating,DNA,tracking device,et al.All your personnal details would be accessible through this technology.And after a while,NO-ONE,slave or free,rich or poor,criminal or law-abider,would be able to live and work without this "bio-chip".Those who refuse it will be incarcerated,implying that it will be a VOLUNTARY submission.
The U.S. dept. of health will be promoting this new technology in the months ahead.Don't take MY word for it,wait and see for yourself.
This chip will also be trumpeted as a "safety measure" against identity theft,bank and CC fraud,kidnapping,terrorism,etc.People will ASK for it,in light of current world affairs.
I don't pretend to know exactly WHEN the time will come,but like Jesus said,these are not the signs of His coming,they are the signs that the time is SHORT.And these things will all come to pass BEFORE those who witnessed WW1 would ALL pass away.
On the subject of the Jews;they are not the whole of Israel,they are only TWO TRIBES of Israel.The other ten have been LOST,since long before Jesus was born.Does anyone know who and where these ten lost tribes are now?It would stupefy you to learn,and most of them wouldn't even believe it;they believe themselves to be Gentiles.
The only difference between them and the Jews is that the Jews have always kept their identifying sign;the lost tribes LOST their identifying sign.Well,they didn't actually lose it,they abandoned it,quite willingly.Do you know what that identifying sign is?What is different and highly visible about the Jews that sets them apart from ALL other "nations"?
As for "organised religions",they are all Mystery Babylon and her daughters.Mystery Babylon is the Great Whore,tainted with the blood of the Saints,who rides the Beast with seven heads and ten horns which comes to destroy mankind,and for the time being looks like it will succeed.Does anyone know who,or what, Mystery Babylon is?Does anyone know who,or what,the Beast is?

Hi Rahly;

In answer to your questions - I am jumping in here - so please be aware I haven't been in on all the discussion, but I can answer your questions from your last post.

On the subject of the Jews;they are not the whole of Israel,they are only TWO TRIBES of Israel.The other ten have been LOST,since long before Jesus was born. Does anyone know who and where these ten lost tribes are now?It would stupefy you to learn,and most of them wouldn't even believe it;they believe themselves to be Gentiles.

Firstly the ten tribe kingdom of Israel was unfaithful and it is believed they are today the United States of America to some and to others the Mormon church. Isaiah 11:1 & 2 is sometimes quoted to symbolize the lost ten tribes as being applicable to the Mormon Church, or THE USA. Whatever they are lost because of there apostasy and whomever is really the ten tribes simply don't have the true faith but are apostates - if you beleive all that Christian reasoning. I have even heard that the British Nation is the lost ten tribes of which the USA is the newly found Child of Israel. Have you ever heard of the Religious group "The Bristish Israelites" ??? They claim just that.

The only difference between them and the Jews is that the Jews have always kept their identifying sign;[ the Hexagram which is an occultic symbol - the 6 pointed star of David/Solomon ] the lost tribes LOST their identifying sign. Well,they didn't actually lose it,they abandoned it,quite willingly. Do you know what that identifying sign is? What is different and highly visible about the Jews that sets them apart from ALL other "nations"?

As for their sign - Don't quote me on this, but - the back of the USA $1.00 bill with 'the eye in the triangle above the pyramid' and the Latin words of the Roman Church - 'ORDO NOVUS SECLORIUM' - meaning 'The Order of the New Secular World' or more simply " The New World Order ". I see that as their sign - until proven otherwise.
They apparently don't blush :blush: and have a slight genetic difference. The Ashkenazi "Jew" particuarly. This area gets into semitism and is very contriversial, because Hitler knew about these sort of issues which is why he did what he did. :eek: Read 'The Protocols of Zion' [ a search engine on the web will get it easily ] and you will see 'The Order of Kahal' driving the NWO into play. This Order was linked into the Freemasons which set up the USA presidency back in 1776 with the founding father and Catholic Jesuit Adam Wiespaut. George Bush a Born Again Christian and business partner to Bin Laden is the current represenative of all this. Christians have a lot to answer for as thay are part of 'Babylon The Great' :eek: 'The World Empire of False Religion'. Any Christian who is a part of a church or organization is actually a part of Babylon :nono: hence the scripture in Revelation 18:4 "Get out of her my people".

As for "organised religions",they are all Mystery Babylon and her daughters. Mystery Babylon is the Great Whore,tainted with the blood of the Saints,who rides the Beast with seven heads and ten horns which comes to destroy mankind,and for the time being looks like it will succeed. Does anyone know who,or what, Mystery Babylon is? Does anyone know who,or what,the Beast is?

Revelation 17 tells you. 'The eighth King' which is also the Beast, is The 'NEW WORLD ORDER' or 'Globalisation'. It is an economic NWO in so much as the mark of the beast has economic consequences - "no one can BUY OR SELL unless thay have the mark". Rev 13:16 to 18.

I hope this answers your questions.
Kimlyn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kermit

I agree. According to the manuscripts the sword of the Lord is his tongue and the true Word of God. It says that the true Word cuts both ways like a two edged sword and thats what he'll use (The truth) to whip this world into shape.

Not some man made sword, that is used for killing and harming people.

Satan is the one who, kills, steals and destroys but he uses the name of God to do it so that men will hate God and his son.

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I wish to add - Jesus is going to rule the nations under his kingdom with an iron rod. An 'iron rod' means strict discipline and a dictatorship, as the bible says a thing "to smash the nations to pieces". :nunu: Revelation 2:27 and 12:5.

This is a loving ruler with his version of 'The New World Order' as in Daniel 2:44. The sword of the Lord is - 'words of power' coming from his tongue as the logos or word. [ see John 1:1.] It's a fight with magick - 'words of power' including 'God's word the Bible' :nunu: against the wicked spirit forces [ see Ephesians 6:12,13 &17. ]. Hence scriptual aurgumentation shows others how good you are with weilding the sword of the spirit :fryingpan because is a spiritual warfare. :nunu:

Regards
Kimlyn

Hi,kimlyn,

I already knew the answers to my questions:I was merely asking so as to see if anyone else had any idea.Thanks for jumping in.

The 10 lost tribes are NOT the USA,but include the USA AND the British,the word "British" being derived from "b'rith" meaning "covenant" and "ish" meaning "man":'b'rith-ish"="covenant man".
The 10 lost tribes encompass the British Isles,the USA,France,most of Western Europe and the Scandinavian countries,as well as Canada,Australia,New Zealand and English-speaking white South Africa.I haven't named them all,but you get the picture.In fact,the lost tribes have spread to all corners of the earth,as promised to Abraham,and re-promised to his sons.
The lost tribes,at one time,owned all the gates (sea-gates) of their "enemies".Now they have "lost" them all,except for the last remaining one,Gibraltar,which is hangin' by a thread.

Their lost identifying sign,believe it or not,is Sabbath-keeping the seventh day of the week,NOT the "occultic" sign you mentioned above.The Sabbath meaning,Saturday(latin:Sabbatto),NOT the first week-day Sun-god worship day,SUNday.
That was,and still is,Israel's apostasy for which it was attacked,its cities destroyed,and its survivors enslaved in Babylon.And will be again,soon,as promised by God.

As for Mystery Babylon,incredibly it IS the Roman Church,and all of her offshoots and detractors,who will be re-united one last time,a godless world-wide religion for the elite.The NWO will enforce its mark (embedded micro-chip) and its economic consequences.Of course,the NWO's agenda includes total annihilation of the human race,so that should give you an idea as to who actually RULES the NWO.

Of course,at first the chip will be voluntary,and then people will ASK for it,expound the "virtues" of it,and eventually it will be mandatory.But all this will happen quickly,all in a matter of a few short years.But you will have to voluntarily "submit" yourself to it.A vaccination IS a voluntary submission,and no doubt a micro-chip CAN be implanted in that way.

So,in short,Mystery Babylon is the "Church",the Beast is the NWO,which is none other than the Roman Empire revived one last time,Israel is most of the so-called "free first-world",including the Jew and the Mark of the Beast is the embedded micro-chip being trumpeted by the current US administration and soon,the rest of the world.

Sorry,I don't quote Scripture;it's never been my forte.

Hi Rahly;

Very interesting comments - its put a few things in perspective.

Regards
Kimlyn