Is there really a place call HELL?

Is HELL real? Better be sure before you say no, because you are betting your eternal life on it.

I found an interesting and Scripture based website about Hell…

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Several years ago a book was published, entitled Beyond Death's Door by Dr. Maurice Rawlings. Dr. Rawlings, a spe******t in Internal Medicine and Cardiovascular Disease, resuscitated many people who had been clinically dead. Dr. Rawlings, a devout atheist, "considered all religion "hocus-pocus" and death nothing more than a painless extinction". But something happened in 1977 that brought a dramatic change in the life of Dr. Rawlings! He was resuscitating a man, terrified and screaming — descending down into the flames of hell:
"Each time he regained heartbeat and respiration, the patient screamed, "I am in hell!" He was terrified and pleaded with me to help him. I was scared to death. . . Then I noticed a genuinely alarmed look on his face. He had a terrified look worse than the expression seen in death! This patient had a grotesque grimace expressing sheer horror! His pupils were dilated, and he was perspiring and trembling — he looked as if his hair was "on end."
Then still another strange thing happened. He said, "Don't you understand? I am in hell. . . Don't let me go back to hell!" . . . the man was serious, and it finally occurred to me that he was indeed in trouble. He was in a panic like I had never seen before."
(Maurice Rawlings, Beyond Death's Door,(Thomas Nelson Inc., 1979) p. 3).
Dr. Rawlings said, no one, who could have heard his screams and saw the look of terror on his face could doubt for a single minute that he was actually in a place called hell!

The Bible continually warns of a place called hell. There are over 162 references in the New Testament alone which warns of hell. And over 70 of these references were uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ took hell so serious — He could say without the slightest hesitation — to remove your eye, cut off your hand or foot, if that would keep you out of hell!

If hell is not real — Jesus Christ was the most deceived man that ever lived!

I’ll challenge anyone to read the words of Jesus Christ and tell me they are the words of a deceived man!

Jesus Christ knew exactly what He was talking about!

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I don’t believe his worm theory, but everything else is Scripture based.
The Truth About Hell

God bless,
Dave

Of course Hell is real. It's in Norway, I went through it once. It's near Trondheim.

Yes, I believe there is. There's an interesting book out by Mary Baxter.

Divine Revelation of HELL

I don't think Hell exists, except in our own minds, if there, and that's only because you were taught that you would wind up there, if you were really bad. And if you find your there, because of a belief system you have acquired I believe you can change the experience, just by changing your mind about it. God put us here to experience, and free will is part of that. It would be to me, a pretty dirty trick, to allow free will, and then say no wrong decision, because it didn't go along with Gods, that after all would not be free will, just a guessing game possibly gone awry..
I believe we all will eventually get to God, everyone of us...
barmurphy

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Originally Posted by nej

Of course Hell is real. It's in Norway, I went through it once. It's near Trondheim.

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Nor wayyy... is it in Norway or Trondheim as you alleged...:eek:

Uless it offers "well done" steaks EVERY time I order mine served by lots of luscious swinging lasses :flame: serving for life in hell :flame: ...:rofl:

Cetainly is there... Google Maps

They have a blues music festival there - I got a bumper sticker with "Hell Blues Festival" on it.

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Originally Posted by barmurphy

I don't think Hell exists, except in our own minds, if there, and that's only because you were taught that you would wind up there, if you were really bad. And if you find your there, because of a belief system you have acquired I believe you can change the experience, just by changing your mind about it. God put us here to experience, and free will is part of that. It would be to me, a pretty dirty trick, to allow free will, and then say no wrong decision, because it didn't go along with Gods, that after all would not be free will, just a guessing game possibly gone awry..
I believe we all will eventually get to God, everyone of us...
barmurphy

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Hi Barnmurphy,

The Bible continually warns of a place called hell. There are over 162 references in the New Testament alone which warns of hell. And over 70 of these references were uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ!

Jesus taught more about hell than He did about Heaven. It’s real, but whether we believe what Jesus says about it or not is our free will choice.

It’s all about free will choices, but with all choices come consequences.

God gave His only begotten Son to die so that we may live in Heaven with Him forever. If we choose not to accept Jesus as our personal Savior we are choosing to pay for our own sins by spending eternity in hell. God won’t be sending people to hell, they will be sending themselves if they choose not to accept God plan of salvation.

God… it’s His court, His ball, His rules.

If we choose not to accept them we must also accept the consequences of that free will choice.

God says I set before you life and death, choose life.

The Truth About Hell

God bless,
Dave

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Originally Posted by nej

Cetainly is there... Google Maps

They have a blues music festival there - I got a bumper sticker with "Hell Blues Festival" on it.

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Hey Bro,

Definitely not the same place I’m talking about. Eternal Hell won’t have any music, just screaming and whaling and gnashing of teeth. Won’t be passing through either, it will be more like the Hotel California, you will check in but you won’t be checking out.

Thanks for the geography lesson though, that was cool.

God bless,
Dave

No, there is not a "hell" as we were all taught to believe it. Who could ever believe that our God would or could be that cruel to his children? God is a loving God and it is not conditional. He does not need to threaten with eternal damnation. That is man made threat which was used and still is used to control people and make them believe and act one way or the other. If you really know God then you feel the warmth and the presence of his being and you will know then this loving presence could not ever create a hell for his children to live in. We come to this earth to experience life, good and bad for him, and it is what we learn (Good and Bad) which determines our next level in our spiritual growth. If we do not get it right this time, we will get it right the next and such is progression. The world is changing very quickly and the hell and brimstone theory of centuries ago no longer have the impact they once had. Instead of seeing what churches and fanatics want people to see, people now see the true being of Christ and it is a wondrous thing :)

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Originally Posted by Donnarae

No, there is not a "hell" as we were all taught to believe it. Who could ever believe that our God would or could be that cruel to his children? God is a loving God and it is not conditional. He does not need to threaten with eternal damnation. That is man made threat which was used and still is used to control people and make them believe and act one way or the other. If you really know God then you feel the warmth and the presence of his being and you will know then this loving presence could not ever create a hell for his children to live in. We come to this earth to experience life, good and bad for him, and it is what we learn (Good and Bad) which determines our next level in our spiritual growth. If we do not get it right this time, we will get it right the next and such is progression. The world is changing very quickly and the hell and brimstone theory of centuries ago no longer have the impact they once had. Instead of seeing what churches and fanatics want people to see, people now see the true being of Christ and it is a wondrous thing :)

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Hello old friend,

What I’m telling folks is straight out of “God’s Word”, not Church doctrine, nor is it man made.

If you are not a Christian and don’t believe the Word of God I can understand why you believe like you do, but to speak of Christ and no not the Words of Christ is foolish.

What is man made is the story that you have come to believe, what man told you that? Please take some time and read God’s Word and you will learn what God says about Heaven and hell. Can you show me anywhere in God’s Word that there is no hell?

Please don’t mislead people into believing that they can live life anyway they want to and not listen to God but still get to Heaven. God’s Word says there is only one way, His way. We as humans don’t have to like it don’t even have to believe it, but it is still a fact straight out of God’s Word.

I wish I could tell folks that they can party like it’s 1999, do everything their heart desires, believe anything they want to believe, get to Heaven any ol’ way they choose, but that would indeed be a lie that would send people to an eternity in hell.

God bless,
Dave

Dave, you can certainly believe the way you choose to and that is ok with me. I am strong in my belief in God and I am also very happy and in awe that others believe in him no matter how they choose to believe. I think the world would be a better place if others were to be happy and rejoice in the fact that all religions believe in a higher being no matter what they choose to call him or how they chose to believe in hm. I for one do not believe that I need to have the fear of eternal damnation to keep me on the right path. I also know I am not alone. I am no less spiritual than you, I just believe in another direction. Do you really believe God will send me to hell for that? I do not think so. I love him as much as you do. You quote the scriptures allot and although I respect you for your belief in them, I do not believe as you .Anyone can go to other denominations and take the same quotes which will mean entirely different things depending on how you believe. Same with the churches. It is all a matter of what belief gives you peace. I go to many different church services, mainly to appease my family and friends and I do get a sense of peace from each one. But I do not believe as they do. But I tolerate their differences and I respect that they believe as they do because they do believe. I seem to detect a little anger or frustration on your post and I am a little confused by that? You of all people should look at what I said and not judge the way I believe but rejoice that I am a child of God. I do not mislead anyone Dave because I am not in any position to do so. You asked an open question on this forum and I felt compelled to answer. I do not think you are misleading people because of the way you believe. Tolerance of other beliefs is one of the biggest problems in this world. It has caused wars, much destruction and many, many deaths. I think this in itself is the "hell" you speak of which is a "hell" of our own creation. I have allot of respect for your word Dave because you believe in what you say and you are not afraid to tell others of your beliefs. That is the power of God. However I also believe just as much as you do, I feel his power and strength and his energy and I will never believe that I am any less spiritual than you or others that believe the same way you do. We are all children of God in all ways.....Donna

Hi Donna,

I’m not angry or frustrated as you assume, nor am I judging you. I’m just telling you what the Word of God says and what you say you believe is not even close to the same thing.

I really would like to know where you get your ideas about God? And I’m really not sure based on what you’ve written, do you consider yourself a Christian? If you do why don’t you believe what Jesus says?

What do you think it takes to become a Christian?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus says He is the only way to access God and that God Himself will not tolerate any other way.

As I’ve stated before, some Scriptures are open to debate, like parts of Revelation, but most of God’s Word is direct and concise, especially concerning man’s fall from grace and God’s plan of salvation… And Heaven and hell.

We are all created by God, and God says in His Word that He desires that none should perish, but His Word also says that there is only one way to become a son of God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him (Jesus), to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

My job is to let people know that God is not a God of confusion, He states in His Word very clearly what is required of mankind to spend eternal life with Him. I must also warn people that there is a day coming that Jesus will judge every man and woman according to their works, and if their name is not written in the Lamb’s (Jesus) book of life they will spend eternity in hell. (Not my words, God’s)

People may not like what God’s Word says, and may never like it. They may not believe it right now either, but one day they will not only believe, they will know.

I don’t want anyone to be cast down into hell on the Day of Judgment. And I surely don’t want them to be screaming at me as they are being cast into hell because I didn’t warn them and tell them how to avoid hell when I passed through their life here on earth.

Because of free will we can believe what God says in His word or we can believe something that we or someone else made up.

I choose to believe God’s Word.

I still love you and pray for you regardless of what you believe, I just can’t give you what I think you want, my approval.

God bless you Donna,
Dave

Hi Dave, why would I want your approval? I am who I am and I will certainly be in heaven with you. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind. As will millions of others like me. It does not matter how you believe, it only matters that you believe. I accept you and your choices whether you accept me and mine.

It is ok with me that you believe what you do, and it is also ok with me that other faiths believe as they do. I see the beauty in all of them. I work with allot of people from India who are Hindu and although some of their beliefs are far fetched in my mind, I see the light in their eyes when they talk about their higher being and that is all that matters to me.

Same with you Although I can not see the light in your eyes, I hear the passion in your words and that is all that matters to me to know you are genuine in your beliefs.

Please believe me when I say that not at any time was I asking for your acceptance because I was not. Your acceptance of me is not important. I will be on the same walk as you in the end make no mistake about it.

What is important is that you respect the way I believe or others who do not believe the same way as you do because the simple fact is, we all believe in God. No one religion is right and no one religion has the right to say someone will burn in hell because we do not see it as you do.

This world is full of diversity in all aspects but especially in religion. It is the acceptance or lack there of from some that have caused many needless deaths and mayham in the world. Maybe when we all can sit back and accept the power of God in all faiths we can have peace.

In the end, our God will not send millions of souls to your hell because we believed differently. He will open the doors because we believe. That is what it is all about.

The question you posted, Is there really a hell, was an open question Dave and I answered your question. I am sure that even on this forum there are many different beliefs but I can see why some may not want to post. Had I have known that you would tell me I would go to hell and others who did not believe the way you do would follow my path, I most likely would not have posted. No, that is not true, I would still have posted because your hell has no affect on my beliefs. Words like that to me are empty words that were used centuries ago as a means to an end. It worked then but it does not now.

I see the light in you Dave and maybe someday when your eyes are open to differences, you may see the light in me. If not, that is ok with me because we will still walk the same path to glory and that is all that matters.....Donna

I was speaking of my approval of what you believe, not you. You never answer my questions or even consider the Word of God I share with you, you just repeat doctrine that you have been taught, is it Christian science?

You say you’ll be in Heaven, but how do you plan on entering Heaven? Have you accepted Jesus as your personal Savoir?

It may not matter to you how people believe, but it matters to God. He gave His only begotten Son to die… DIE… GOD’S SON. Jesus paid a horrible price so mankind could escape death and hell and be forgiven of sin and live forever with God in Heaven. God takes it very personal when a person dies in their sin by refusing to accept the sacrificial death of His Son for the atonement of their sins.

What you have done is created a false god to worship. You’ve created a god in your mind, a god just for you and fashioned him or her to the image of what you want your god to be.

Do you believe the Word of God at all? If you don’t believe God’s Word and if you’re not interested seeking the truth according to God’s Word then there is nothing I can do to help you except pray that God will allow the scales of deception to fall off of your eyes that you might know His’ truth when you read it.

God bless you Donna,
Dave

Hi Dave,

No, I was not asking for your approval on my beliefs either. When I answered your question, I knew you did not believe as I did and that is ok. The fact is you asked a question on an open forum and I answered it.

No, I am not a believer of the Christian Science faith although they are just as adamant that they are right as you are. So is the Jehova Witness, Jewish, Penecostal, Baptists, Methodists, Muslims, Buddists, Hindu's and so on. Do you really believe our God will pick just your faith to go to heaven? I do not think so. Being biased is a human trait

All religions should be praising God because he has touched peoples hearts and our souls in many different ways.

Am I a christian? Not by your definition. Am I a believer in Christ? You better believe it. Am I one with God, yes. Do I believe that your scripture is the word of God? No. I believe it is the story of God written with man's interpertations throughout time.

When I read the things that you write Dave, I do not tell you that I will pray for God to open your eyes so you can believe as I do. I have never implied that your beliefs are wrong in any way. Just as strongly as you believe in your faith, I believe in mine it does not make you any more spiritual than it does me. My heart is filled to bursting because I know another has found God and it does not matter to me how you got to where you are only that you have arrived.

I am nondenominational. I believe in all of the religions and I see them for what they are. I can go to any service and feel peace and love but I do not have to believe everything about that religion to feel the power of God within. If being a christian by your definition means that I have to believe just one way and not see the beauty and the power of different religions and not accept other beliefs as their gospel, then I do not believe I would like to become one

You asked a question Dave and I answered it honestly. I did not know it would turn into you feeling the need to pray for me because I did not answer the question the way you wanted me to. My soul is not in jeopardy. Maybe if you do not want to hear what some others believe with an open heart and mind then maybe you should watch how you word your questions.

The last thing I would like to say Dave is that here on earth there are allot of differences and allot of prejudices but when it comes time to leave this world, we will all walk on the same road to the same place and be embraced by the same loving arms....Take care Dave, I wish you and yours the best life has to offer. God Bless you.....Donna

:cheer: En Shallah to you Donna and being forthright with your faith in the Almighty that blesses us all irrespective of our creed, color or convictions to any individual choice of religion or none as many would also like to proclaim their position.

Thank you for sharing your perception with religion and I appreciate it very much just from reading your outlook towards anyone that has a right of place on this planet.


YB. - Cheers to you and be merry with sharing your humility here and anywhere... welcome to ROLClub too.:ro_emote:

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Originally Posted by Donnarae

The last thing I would like to say Dave is that here on earth there are allot of differences and allot of prejudices but when it comes time to leave this world, we will all walk on the same road to the same place and be embraced by the same loving arms....Take care Dave, I wish you and yours the best life has to offer. God Bless you.....Donna

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Originally Posted by DocDave

...you just repeat doctrine that you have been taught...

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I suggest you look yourself in the mirror and repeat the above sentence. Then read Matthew 7:3.

Beware us all from fanatics of any faith.

Donna, I really liked your answer. God bless you too.

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Grace

The Bible speaks of variouis types of grace...

1. Grace, meaning God's forgiving mercy (Rom. 11:6; Eph. 2:5).
2. The gospel as distinguished from the law (John 1:17; Rom. 6:14; 1 Pet. 5:12).
3. Grace of form or person (Prov. 1:9; 3:22; Ps. 45:2).
4. Grace, meaning favor, kindness, friendship (Gen. 6:8; 18:3; 19:19; 2 Tim. 1:9).
5. Gifts freely bestowed by God; as miracles, prophecy, tongues (Rom. 15:15; 1 Cor. 15:10; Eph. 3:8).
6. Christian virtues (2 Cor. 8:7; 2 Pet. 3:18).
7. The glory hereafter to be revealed (1 Pet. 1:13).

Author: Matthew G. Easton, with minor editing by Paul S. Taylor.

Salvation through faith by grace alone
The Bible teaches that we are justified by grace alone, through faith alone, because of Christ alone. Unfortunately, some people try to add human works to this. For example, Catholicism adds such requirements as:

• Obey the commandments of God
• Love and worship God
• Pray
• Fast
• Love one's neighbor
• Practice self-renunciation
• Bear witness to the Catholic faith
• Follow supernatural inspiration in deeds
• Confess the major doctrines of the Church

But when it comes to salvation, the apostle Paul said of his own righteous works:

"I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith" (Philippians 3:8-9 - NIV).

Where justification by faith alone is not clearly understood and taught, "another gospel" is being proclaimed. Galatians includes a stern warning about those who proclaim "another gospel."

"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:6-9 - NKJV).

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This is from Bible Encyclopedia [Home] - WebBible.net / ChristianAnswers.Net

The Bible says it is by GRACE we are saved through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is a GIFT from God, not of works lest any man should boast...

Why would we need this free gift of salvation through God's Grace if there is nothing to be saved FROM? When Adam and EVE sinned in the garden, the consequence is death, eternal separation from God, BUT God in His mercy and love for us, sent JESUS to die and pay the price for our sin...so that we might have eternity WITH Him.

Father, in the name of Jesus, I ask you to continue to tug and draw your creation to yourself. As a Pastor that I heard this past weekend say, even the ANGELS marvel at why you give people a second thought...Lord, I thank you that you desire all of us to spend eternity with you, and that you came live on this earth so you could DIE and be raised again for us. You also came to show us how to live our lives in this world...Thank you.

God, please bless all who are reading here and posting...Amen

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Originally Posted by YogiBrood

:cheer: En Shallah to you Donna and being forthright with your faith in the Almighty that blesses us all irrespective of our creed, color or convictions to any individual choice of religion or none as many would also like to proclaim their position.

Thank you for sharing your perception with religion and I appreciate it very much just from reading your outlook towards anyone that has a right of place on this planet.


YB. - Cheers to you and be merry with sharing your humility here and anywhere... welcome to ROLClub too.:ro_emote:

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Thank you very much for your kind words.....

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Originally Posted by bultn

I suggest you look yourself in the mirror and repeat the above sentence. Then read Matthew 7:3.

Beware us all from fanatics of any faith.

Donna, I really liked your answer. God bless you too.

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Thank you Bultn

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Originally Posted by cooldolphins

This is from Bible Encyclopedia [Home] - WebBible.net / ChristianAnswers.Net

The Bible says it is by GRACE we are saved through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is a GIFT from God, not of works lest any man should boast...

Why would we need this free gift of salvation through God's Grace if there is nothing to be saved FROM? When Adam and EVE sinned in the garden, the consequence is death, eternal separation from God, BUT God in His mercy and love for us, sent JESUS to die and pay the price for our sin...so that we might have eternity WITH Him.

Father, in the name of Jesus, I ask you to continue to tug and draw your creation to yourself. As a Pastor that I heard this past weekend say, even the ANGELS marvel at why you give people a second thought...Lord, I thank you that you desire all of us to spend eternity with you, and that you came live on this earth so you could DIE and be raised again for us. You also came to show us how to live our lives in this world...Thank you.

God, please bless all who are reading here and posting...Amen

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Thank you cooldolphins and have a blessed day

It's in the Grand Caymans. Been there twice. Actually is a pretty nice place. People are very friendly. Can't wait to go back.:banana:

Hi Dave,

I've read Dr. Rawlings book and I highly recommend it - especially for those who doubt hell's existence. Another good read on this subject is Kenneth E. Hagin's "I Beleive in Visions". By the way, you're doing a great job of correcting dividing the Word of God.

Phil419

Hi Donna,

Yes you did answer my question concerning hell, but then you proceeded to preach the message of your faith and who you believed God was and you mentioned Christ, which raised a lot of questions in me because your post doesn’t describe the living Christ of the Scriptures. Please don’t be offended when someone asks you questions about your beliefs that you posted on an open forum.

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No, there is not a "hell" as we were all taught to believe it. Who could ever believe that our God would or could be that cruel to his children? God is a loving God and it is not conditional. He does not need to threaten with eternal damnation. That is man made threat which was used and still is used to control people and make them believe and act one way or the other. If you really know God then you feel the warmth and the presence of his being and you will know then this loving presence could not ever create a hell for his children to live in. We come to this earth to experience life, good and bad for him, and it is what we learn (Good and Bad) which determines our next level in our spiritual growth. If we do not get it right this time, we will get it right the next and such is progression. The world is changing very quickly and the hell and brimstone theory of centuries ago no longer have the impact they once had. Instead of seeing what churches and fanatics want people to see, people now see the true being of Christ and it is a wondrous thing :)

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I know you feel like I’m picking on you when I question your beliefs, but I’m not. You are a very, very sweet lady and I don't mean to cause you stress. Only you confess to being a Christian but you don’t keep Christ’s Words? You believe that the Word of God is really just man’s interpretation of God. So I must ask you where do you get your beliefs, especially about Jesus Christ? As I’ve stated, my beliefs are from the Word of God not from man, nor religion.

I’m not surprised that people get upset at the Word of God that I share. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not a popular message, people don’t like it when God says there is but one way. Jesus’ message was so unpopular in His day it got Him killed.

Matthew 7:13-14 Jesus says:
13. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
People don’t want to here that and most will reject it.

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Do you really believe our God will pick just your faith to go to heaven?

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No, He didn’t pick my faith, I read His Word and choose His way.

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Am I a Christian? Not by your definition. Am I a believer in Christ? You better believe it. Am I one with God, yes.

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Again it is not my definition it is straight from God’s Word, Jesus’ definition. According to Jesus there is but one way, very unpopular I know, but the Lord said it not me.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

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Do I believe that your scripture is the word of God? No.

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Now I’m starting to understand a little bit about where you are coming from. That helps me understand why you believe that any and every way to God will be ok. If I didn’t believe the Scriptures are the true Word of God I would probably believe something similar as you.

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I believe it is the story of God written with man's interpretations throughout time.

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I see where we differ. I believe the Word of God is directly from God, written down by men verbatim, men that were anointed by God through the Holy Ghost and without man’s interpretation. I believe it is the infallible Word of God.

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If being a Christian by your definition means that I have to believe just one way and not see the beauty and the power of different religions and not accept other beliefs as their gospel, then I do not believe I would like to become one.

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Again, it is not my definition it is Jesus’ and most of the world agrees with you.

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The last thing I would like to say Dave is that here on earth there are allot of differences and allot of prejudices but when it comes time to leave this world, we will all walk on the same road to the same place and be embraced by the same loving arms.

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I’m sorry if you feel that Jesus was being prejudice when He spoke His unpopular Words of truth and life. He is not prejudice, He died for every man, woman and child that ever has or ever will walk this earth.
And yes, according to Revelation 20 we will all meet at the same place, the Judgment seat of God.

Judgment… Surely God knows that’s not going to be a popular concept among His creation. But then that takes us to another unpopular Scripture, Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

We were created for His pleasure.

Revelation 20
1. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


When Jesus walked the earth He healed the sick, cast out devils, and raised the dead, it was obvious that God was with Him, but still people didn’t want to believe His Words. Here is some more unpopular truth that Jesus preached…


John 8:23-59
23. And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26. I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27. They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28. Then said Jesus unto them, when ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
30. As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47. He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. 48. Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49. Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50. And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51. Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. 52. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54. Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55. Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58. Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

More truth spoken by Jesus that makes Him unpopular with His creation.

John 10:14-42
14. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. 19. There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
20. And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
21. Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
22. And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
23. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24. Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30. I and my Father are one. 31. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33. The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37. If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39. Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
40. And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.
41. And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.
42. And many believed on him there.

Matthew 13:9 Jesus says: Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

God bless,
Dave

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Originally Posted by dinarholder

It's in the Grand Caymans. Been there twice. Actually is a pretty nice place. People are very friendly. Can't wait to go back.:banana:

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lol, better stick to that one Bro and do your best to avoid the eternal one that Jesus warns of.

God bless,
Dave

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Originally Posted by Phil419

Hi Dave,

I've read Dr. Rawlings book and I highly recommend it - especially for those who doubt hell's existence. Another good read on this subject is Kenneth E. Hagin's "I Beleive in Visions". By the way, you're doing a great job of correcting dividing the Word of God.

Phil419

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Hey Bro,

Thanks for your input, I'll have to check out Bro Hagin's book.

God bless,
Dave

Thanks for sharing the Word sister Tammy!

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Matthew 13:9 Jesus says: Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

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Lord, give me ears to hear!!!! I want it!!! I want eyes to see and ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches!!!!!:biggrin::party::banana:

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Originally Posted by DocDave

Thanks for sharing the Word sister Tammy!

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:ro_emote:

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Originally Posted by bultn

Then read Matthew 7:3 Beware us all from fanatics of any faith.

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Great Word especially when used in proper context.

To understand what Jesus was saying you need to read Matthew 5-7.

Thanks for sharing.

God bless,
Dave

Matthew ch. 5-7

Matthew 5
The Beatitudes
1Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2and he began to teach them saying:
3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Salt and Light
13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Murder
21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[b]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.[d]

Adultery
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Divorce
31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'[f] 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
Oaths
33"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
An Eye for an Eye
38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 6
Giving to the Needy
1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Prayer
5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.[j]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Fasting
16"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 17But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Treasures in Heaven
19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24"No one can serve two *******. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

Do Not Worry
25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[k]?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Matthew 7
Judging Others
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

Ask, Seek, Knock
7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
9"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

The Narrow and Wide Gates
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
A Tree and Its Fruit
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

The Wise and Foolish Builders
24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
28When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

Hi Dave, please let me say something upfront and to the point for starters. First, I do not preach any message, I answered a question. Second, not once did I say Jesus was prejudiced, I was saying it was you who are prejudiced. Maybe not in your beliefs but in how you view other beliefs. Third, you do not offend me in any way and I do not take your posts in the least bit personal. You have your beliefs and I have mine. I accept that, you do not, life goes on.

You can post whatever scriptures you would like but you change nothing in the way I believe. I am very secure with my beliefs, I know I am one with God and I know others that do not believe the way you do are also one with God and I know also Dave that when the time comes, like it or not we will all walk beside you to the kingdom of God. You may choose to walk to the right or left of us, in front or behind but we will all get there together.

I will proudly walk next to my Muslim, Baptist, Hindu, Buddist, Penecostal and all other religions, brothers and sisters on my way. You with your beliefs will not get there any faster or stand any higher than any of us.

The difference Dave between you and I is that I am awed by the different beliefs of people in all religions, the power of God is very apparent in all faiths and just as strongly as you believe, we also believe. All of us.

God has no right way and no wrong way to love him he only asks to be loved. That love cannot be defined by you or me or anyone else.

You read your scriptures and you learn things that make you feel one with God. I read scriptures and books and other denominations gospels and I learn something from them all and I feel at peace and one with God. There is no difference.

We are a very diverse world Dave, things are changing rapidly and we must change with them. I never asked you to change your beliefs and see things my way, it is not important to me that you do. I only asked that you open your mind and see that your way is not the only way home.

You are putting stipulations on God's love and there are none. The scriptures that you are so fond of quoting are not my word and not the word of many others. The scriptures have changed many, many times over the centuries, they have been interpreted in many languages and adapted to many life styles. Your version has been interpreted from another version and so on. You believe in them as the word of God as many others like you do. I accept that and most people in other religions accept that. I respect that as do others. But the thing is that I do not believe that way and many others like me do not and you do not accept or respect our differences. That puts who in the position of trying to judge others?

I did not post an answer to your question Dave because I was confused or because I was looking for guidance. Quite frankly I posted because I am interested in other views on the subject of religion and how others believe. The more I learn, the closer to God I become. Just as you read scriptures from your bible that tells you I will surely go to your hell if I do not believe your way, I can read scriptures and gospel from other religions that will refute your claim. You may believe I am headed to your hell because I do not believe as you do but I know in my heart that you could not be further from the truth. I feel it strongly in my heart and soul

The last thing I will say Dave is that if you as a preacher of God's word can not have compassion and understanding and acceptance of other beliefs in the world of religion, how can you expect anything different from our world leaders? Enough hatred and death and prejudice has gone on in the world, don't you think it is time for it to stop? These wars are not God's doing because he is mad or believes one religion is right over another, it is all man made because they believe only their way is right and they have no room in their hearts for differences. They no longer see the love of God, they only see the win

I have to wonder Dave, maybe God did not send me here to seek help and understanding from you as you seem to believe. Maybe just maybe God sent me here for you so you can clearly see that we are all one in God's eyes, no matter who we are or how we believe or even what we look like. No one is asking you to change your beliefs Dave, I am in no position to ask that of anyone, nor would I ever want to. There is a big world out there and so much love for God in all forms. That is a beautiful thing. That is the way of God.....We are all reaching for the same thing Dave and we will all receive it when our time comes.It is the way it was meant to be...Donna

Hi Donna,

How are you this evening? Better grab a cup of coffee, this is a rather long response.

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Hi Dave, please let me say something upfront and to the point for starters. First, I do not preach any message, I answered a question.

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We all preach a message by what we say and how we live, and yes your testimony in the beginning preached a message. It’s a beautiful message that paints an image of a god that simply does not exist. And if someone seeking God reads your message they might want to follow your god of “freedom without responsibility”. After all they could rape, kill, steal, and do all manor of evil and still stroll into Heaven in the end, because if they don’t get it right this time they will the next?

You keep saying, “my beliefs” and I keep trying to tell you and show you in God’s Word they are not my beliefs, they are God’s Words, the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

It’s the Word of God and I’m sorry it doesn’t fit with the image of your god. God warns in His Word that He is a very jealous God and He will not share His glory with any false gods.

How many gods of these other faiths have given their only begotten son as a sacrificial offering so that they may live?

How many other faiths have anything like the Bible? It was written over thousands of years by many different anointed men of God and yet it doesn’t contradict itself. Scientists today and over the past 100 years are just now discovering many of the things that the Bible stated as a fact thousands of years ago. Do you think imperfect men could write such a profound, accurate book of knowledge, wisdom and prophesy over that many years without the hand of the all knowing God?

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Second, not once did I say Jesus was prejudiced, I was saying it was you who are prejudiced. Maybe not in your beliefs but in how you view other beliefs.

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Again, you are arguing with God’s Word, not me. I’m sharing with you what Jesus Himself said.

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Third, you do not offend me in any way and I do not take your posts in the least bit personal. You have your beliefs and I have mine. I accept that, you do not, life goes on.

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My belief is that the Word of God is true and I share that Word with you. God’s Word and your beliefs are different, I accept that.

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You can post whatever scriptures you would like but you change nothing in the way I believe.

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That’s not right, you call me closed minded? I share the Word of God with you and you won’t even consider it? The only thing you have shared with me so far is a vague description of a “anything goes” god you have fashioned in your mind, and call me closed minded because I won’t believe in him?

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I am very secure with my beliefs, I know I am one with God and I know others that do not believe the way you do are also one with God and I know also Dave that when the time comes, like it or not we will all walk beside you to the kingdom of God. You may choose to walk to the right or left of us, in front or behind but we will all get there together.

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How do you know you are one with God, what makes you believe that? Is it just a warm, fuzzy feeling inside or is it more that that? Because Proverbs 14:12 says: There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.

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The difference Dave between you and I is that I am awed by the different beliefs of people in all religions, the power of God is very apparent in all faiths and just as strongly as you believe, we also believe. All of us.

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The difference is I know and believe the Word of the true and living God and His Word says He doesn’t play that “many ways” to Him game. I know that’s not popular but it’s God’s Word and I accept it.

There is a one world government coming, and a one world currency, along with a one world religion that will produce a temporary peace, so you should fit in nicely.

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God has no right way and no wrong way to love him he only asks to be loved. That love cannot be defined by you or me or anyone else.

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Actually that love is defined by God. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

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We are a very diverse world Dave, things are changing rapidly and we must change with them.

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Are you saying that we humans today are way to smart and sophisticated to believe that old tired, wornout Word of God? Lol, no offense, but the finite mind of man will never surpass, equal, outgrow, or date the Infinite Mind and Words of God.

Matthew 24:35 Jesus says: Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Here’s just a small glimpse of the Infinite Mind of God. This is what God said to Job when Job questioned Him.

Job 38
The LORD Speaks
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said:
2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?
3 Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.
4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone-
7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?
8 "Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb,
9 when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness,
10 when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place,
11 when I said, 'This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt'?
12 "Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place,
13 that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?
14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.
15 The wicked are denied their light, and their upraised arm is broken.
16 "Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep?
17 Have the gates of death been shown to you? Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death?
18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth? Tell me, if you know all this.
19 "What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside?
20 Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
21 Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years!
22 "Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail,
23 which I reserve for times of trouble, for days of war and battle?
24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed, or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?
25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain, and a path for the thunderstorm,
26 to water a land where no man lives, a desert with no one in it,
27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland and make it sprout with grass?
28 Does the rain have a father? Who fathers the drops of dew?
29 From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens
30 when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen?
31 "Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades? Can you loose the cords of Orion?
32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?
33 Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set up God's dominion over the earth?
34 "Can you raise your voice to the clouds and cover yourself with a flood of water?
35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way? Do they report to you, 'Here we are'?
36 Who endowed the heart with wisdom or gave understanding to the mind?
37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds? Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens.
38 when the dust becomes hard and the clods of earth stick together?
39 "Do you hunt the prey for the lioness and satisfy the hunger of the lions
40 when they crouch in their dens or lie in wait in a thicket?
41 Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God and wander about for lack of food?

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I never asked you to change your beliefs and see things my way, it is not important to me that you do. I only asked that you open your mind and see that your way is not the only way home.

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Again, it’s not my way, but God’s, and God says the sacrificial death of His Son is the only way. He’s not going to open His mind and see it your way, perhaps you should stop beating your head against God’s Word and try to see it His way.

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You are putting stipulations on God's love and there are none.

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Not I, but the Lord Himself has set boundaries. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

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The scriptures that you are so fond of quoting are not my word and not the word of many others. The scriptures have changed many, many times over the centuries, they have been interpreted in many languages

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What is it about the Word of God that gets under so many people’s skin? Is it because it is infallible and no man can stand before God’s wisdom and dispute Him? Why do so many people rebel against God’s authority?

Know that Almighty God watches over His Word, and it is His Holy Spirit that has guided the pen of these interpretations.

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and adapted to many life styles.

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The Word of God never adapts to man’s life style, only his language.

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Your version has been interpreted from another version and so on. You believe in them as the word of God as many others like you do. I accept that and most people in other religions accept that. I respect that as do others. But the thing is that I do not believe that way and many others like me do not and you do not accept or respect our differences.

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It really does bug you that I won’t accept your belief of any ol’ way to God will work, doesn’t it? I told you I can’t accept and approve that belief. Jesus is the one who died on the cross and was resurrected in three days, and He says He is the door to the Father and I believe Him and I keep His Words.

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That puts who in the position of trying to judge others?

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God.

The Word of God does judge and discern. Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

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I did not post an answer to your question Dave because I was confused or because I was looking for guidance. Quite frankly I posted because I am interested in other views on the subject of religion and how others believe. The more I learn, the closer to God I become. Just as you read scriptures from your bible that tells you I will surely go to your hell if I do not believe your way,

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The Word of God speaks of a people that are always learning and never coming to the knowledge of the truth, I pray you are not one. 2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

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I can read scriptures and gospel from other religions that will refute your claim.

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I’m open to hearing them, please post.

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You may believe I am headed to your hell because I do not believe as you do but I know in my heart that you could not be further from the truth.

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I can’t tell you if you are going to Heaven or hell, I don’t know for sure what you believe or how you live. But if you are planning on going to Heaven without accepting Jesus as your Savior and picking up your cross and following Him, Jesus said it won’t happen.

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I feel it strongly in my heart and soul.

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You shouldn’t base your beliefs in the god you decide to follow on your emotions. Just because you feel something strongly in your heart and soul doesn’t mean it is the living God. Instead base your beliefs on the very Words of the living God.

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The last thing I will say Dave is that if you as a preacher of God's word can not have compassion and understanding and acceptance of other beliefs in the world of religion, how can you expect anything different from our world leaders?

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Two things, first this goes back to my first point, we are all preaching something. Because I posted a few message on this forum you assume I’m a preacher. I’ve never been to “Bible training” and haven’t been inside a Church in over 6 years and I’m not a “Preacher”, just an average follower of Jesus Christ. But you assumed correctly, we both are preaching our God. My God is the living God of the Holy Scriptures and your god is an “anything goes” god.

Second, God is all about compassion, understanding and acceptance even though He will not tolerate belief in other gods. He created man who sinned and rebelled against Him. Out of love He sent His Son to die on the cross for ALL of us. Jesus’ blood opened the door back to the Father, if people don’t accept the free gift of eternal life through Jesus, they will spend eternity in the lake of fire that was created for satan and the other fallen angels.

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Enough hatred and death and prejudice has gone on in the world, don't you think it is time for it to stop?

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Who have I hated, who have I killed and who have I been prejudice against? I can’t stop the evil that is in another man’s heart, except I lead him to Jesus and the Lord will change his heart.

Because I tell you what Jesus says about other gods does that makes me the bad guy? I’m just the messenger, the message that ruffles your feathers is from God.

I’m starting to understand Matt. 10:24

Matthew 10:24-42
24. "A student is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master.
25. It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub (the devil), how much more the members of his household!
26. "So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.
27. What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs.
28. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
29. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.
30. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31. So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
32. "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.
33. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

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These wars are not God's doing because he is mad or believes one religion is right over another, it is all man made because they believe only their way is right and they have no room in their hearts for differences. They no longer see the love of God, they only see the win.

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Jesus is the love of God that came manifested in the flesh, it is He that says He has no room for belief in other gods. Jesus never started any wars, He preached against living by the sword. And His true followers abide by His words and they have never started any religious wars. Men who go out and kill in the name of their religion are not of God and they too will spend eternity in the lake of fire.

Matthew 26:51-53
51. And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
52. Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53. Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Luke 22:51
But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.

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I have to wonder Dave, maybe God did not send me here to seek help and understanding from you as you seem to believe. Maybe just maybe God sent me here for you so you can clearly see that we are all one in God's eyes, no matter who we are or how we believe or even what we look like.

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Lol, I laugh because I assume you are kidding. According to your words, your god doesn’t care how I believe, what I do or how I act… It’s all good to him so why would he want me to change anything?

What I’ve posted is the Word of God, and God says His Word changes not.

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No one is asking you to change your beliefs Dave, I am in no position to ask that of anyone, nor would I ever want to.

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Again, my beliefs are the Words of Jesus, if they rub you the wrong way maybe you should take it up with Him. Pray and ask Him why He won’t be more tolerant towards other gods and other people with beliefs that He didn’t teach.

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There is a big world out there and so much love for God in all forms. That is a beautiful thing. That is the way of God.....

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God expects and accepts praise and worship from all of His creation because He justly deserves it. The Scriptures say that if we didn’t praise Him, He would raise up the rocks to praise Him.

But He puts a stipulation on eternal life in Heaven with Him, He says enter through the door (Jesus) or you will be kicked out.

Think about this, if you gave your only son to die in someone else’s place and that someone thumb their nose up at your son’s death, didn’t care, didn’t appreciate it, went their own way and basically told you to kiss where the sun doesn’t shine, how would to feel?

No really, think about that. Because that is what God has done for mankind and that is the way a lot of mankind is treating Jesus’ death. God sacrificed His perfect Son Jesus to save us from our sins and to redeem us and keep us out of the lake of fire, and most of mankind is saying, yeah God, what ever! Why don’t you make 7-up yours and I’ll live my life any way I please, and when I get to Heaven I just know you’ll let me in because you love me.

God will say sorry but I abhor sin and sin cannot abide in My presence. I sacrificed my only begotten, perfect Son to buy back your freedom from sin and you flat out refused to accept my offer and died in your sins, and now it’s too late.

God absolutely hates sin and God said the price of sin is death. God is not a liar as man, He cannot lie. When God said the wages of sin is death that was it, period, end of discussion. That means somebody has got to die for your sins, either you or Jesus.

But wait just a minute, God is a loving God, He surely wouldn’t do that.

The Word of God says that “He is love”. But He has a zero tolerance policy for sin, it will not abide in His presence.

Ever heard the story of Noah and his Ark? God killed every man, woman and child on the face of the earth with a flood because of their sinful, evil nature. Except Noah and his family, God spared them because Noah was a good man and found favor with God.

Did you know that scientists can now prove that at one time water covered the entire face of the earth?

Genesis 6:5-8
5. The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.
6. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
7. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them."
8. But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

My job as a Christian is to love everybody and lead those that have “ears to hear” to Jesus, for He is the only way to everlasting life.

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We are all reaching for the same thing Dave and we will all receive it when our time comes. It is the way it was meant to be...Donna

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I wish for your sake and many others that it was so, but it’s simply not true, no matter how right it may seem in your mind.

God bless you Donna, I do love you and I will be praying for you and your family.

See you tomorrow,
Dave

Hello Dave,

Some of the other faiths do have their bibles, for example, Tanakh (Judaism) Quran (Islam) Gita (Hinduism) Not to mention the many, many versions of the old testament and the new testament,King James, watch tower, the list goes on and on and just because you do not believe in their word does not make them any less real. Man has twisted scripture to fit society doctrine for thousands of years.

You shared your word with me and I listened but I do not believe that way. Your belief is not my belief. It is not that I will not consider it, I consider everything but I do not believe as you do so I listen, try to learn something. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Your words do not teach me anything that I have not already heard but it does make me stronger in my belief. But I will tell you that I do respect your belief because you believe

You are trying to put a definition to my belief so that you can understand where you think I am coming from and you can't. Just as I can not understand why you believe the way you do. You and I are not all knowing but God is. He sees the beauty and love in us both. You shouldn't try to define it, just see it for what it is.

Actually, the word of God is not what gets under peoples skin. I believe that more people would come to God if it was not for the way it was presented by some. As I said, times are changing quickly and if the preachers and the churches of all religions do not find a new way to reach our youth, then they will go another way. Call it hiding from the reality of God's word if you want to, but that is a fact and we all know it. One of the problems is we spend so much time trying to put a label to an issue and blaming the inaedquacies of other religions instead of facing the problem as one.

You keep saying that something you are saying is bugging me or making me angry and I am sorry but it is just not there. As I said earlier Dave, I do not take this conversation personally. I do not even view this as an argument. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Nothing more, nothing less

I did not ever say "You" hated, killed etc....as I said, this is not personal. I was saying that due to some fanatic believers who believe only their way is right all others are wrong, wars have started. Look at the Islamic extremists now. They want to kill all who do not believe as they do. But we can not disregard their religion or beliefs because they have fanatics. We certainly have them in all of our religions. We all have our fair share

No, I was not kidding when I said maybe God sent me to you so that you may be able to open your eyes and see that there is truth and light in all religions. Just because you believe the way you do does not mean that it may not be a possibilty. Neither of us is closer to God than the other. I never said "my" God says you can beleive any way you want to and do what you want to do. I said there are many ways to believe. We all believe and we will all go to heaven, like it or not Dave. there is no religious seperation in heaven, there is only the love of God

You asked for background on me? I will tell you, I was raised Baptist, my Father who just passed away last month was a die hard Christian Science follower. My uncle was an ordained minister in the Penecostal religion. My in laws are strong in their Methodist belief. My one sister is Presbyterian and my other is New age. One of my best friends is Muslim and the other is Jewish. I also have friends in the Amish community oh, and I have a cousin who believes very strongly in the gnostic faith. None of us believe in each others religions. We talk about it, we debate it, we compare and in the end, we just respect each others beliefs because we all believe in God. Your words Dave will never ever make me believe that any of us will go to your hell because we do not believe the way you do.

This conversation Dave can go on forever. We are both strong in our beliefs and we will both never change those beliefs so this is all a mute discussion. The important thing is not our differences or if we agree or disagree on hell or how we will all get to heaven. The important thing is that we are both following the light of God. If I never get to meet you here on earth Dave, then I will see you when we both get home. God bless you and yours Dave.....Donna

Donna, once again a wonderful post. The world would be a better place if there was more people like you and less fanatics.

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Originally Posted by Donnarae

Hello Dave,

Some of the other faiths do have their bibles, for example, Tanakh (Judaism) Quran (Islam) Gita (Hinduism) Not to mention the many, many versions of the old testament and the new testament,King James, watch tower, the list goes on and on and just because you do not believe in their word does not make them any less real. Man has twisted scripture to fit society doctrine for thousands of years.

You shared your word with me and I listened but I do not believe that way. Your belief is not my belief. It is not that I will not consider it, I consider everything but I do not believe as you do so I listen, try to learn something. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Your words do not teach me anything that I have not already heard but it does make me stronger in my belief. But I will tell you that I do respect your belief because you believe

You are trying to put a definition to my belief so that you can understand where you think I am coming from and you can't. Just as I can not understand why you believe the way you do. You and I are not all knowing but God is. He sees the beauty and love in us both. You shouldn't try to define it, just see it for what it is.

Actually, the word of God is not what gets under peoples skin. I believe that more people would come to God if it was not for the way it was presented by some. As I said, times are changing quickly and if the preachers and the churches of all religions do not find a new way to reach our youth, then they will go another way. Call it hiding from the reality of God's word if you want to, but that is a fact and we all know it. One of the problems is we spend so much time trying to put a label to an issue and blaming the inaedquacies of other religions instead of facing the problem as one.

You keep saying that something you are saying is bugging me or making me angry and I am sorry but it is just not there. As I said earlier Dave, I do not take this conversation personally. I do not even view this as an argument. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Nothing more, nothing less

I did not ever say "You" hated, killed etc....as I said, this is not personal. I was saying that due to some fanatic believers who believe only their way is right all others are wrong, wars have started. Look at the Islamic extremists now. They want to kill all who do not believe as they do. But we can not disregard their religion or beliefs because they have fanatics. We certainly have them in all of our religions. We all have our fair share

No, I was not kidding when I said maybe God sent me to you so that you may be able to open your eyes and see that there is truth and light in all religions. Just because you believe the way you do does not mean that it may not be a possibilty. Neither of us is closer to God than the other. I never said "my" God says you can beleive any way you want to and do what you want to do. I said there are many ways to believe. We all believe and we will all go to heaven, like it or not Dave. there is no religious seperation in heaven, there is only the love of God

You asked for background on me? I will tell you, I was raised Baptist, my Father who just passed away last month was a die hard Christian Science follower. My uncle was an ordained minister in the Penecostal religion. My in laws are strong in their Methodist belief. My one sister is Presbyterian and my other is New age. One of my best friends is Muslim and the other is Jewish. I also have friends in the Amish community oh, and I have a cousin who believes very strongly in the gnostic faith. None of us believe in each others religions. We talk about it, we debate it, we compare and in the end, we just respect each others beliefs because we all believe in God. Your words Dave will never ever make me believe that any of us will go to your hell because we do not believe the way you do.

This conversation Dave can go on forever. We are both strong in our beliefs and we will both never change those beliefs so this is all a mute discussion. The important thing is not our differences or if we agree or disagree on hell or how we will all get to heaven. The important thing is that we are both following the light of God. If I never get to meet you here on earth Dave, then I will see you when we both get home. God bless you and yours Dave.....Donna

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No, this conversation won’t go on forever.

I have spoken enough truth about the one true and living God and the only way to eternity with Him is through His Son Jesus Christ.

Those who have ears to hear, let them hear.

Go in peace my friend,
Dave

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Originally Posted by Donnarae

This conversation Dave can go on forever. We are both strong in our beliefs and we will both never change those beliefs so this is all a mute discussion. The important thing is not our differences or if we agree or disagree on hell or how we will all get to heaven. The important thing is that we are both following the light of God. If I never get to meet you here on earth Dave, then I will see you when we both get home. God bless you and yours Dave.....Donna

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:cheer: Thank you Donna and Dave for enlightening us all who tankfully read and observed your positions addressing your thoughts and committed devotion to beliefs that you hold dear to your heart and soul if I may also add.:thumbsup:

We are all blessed by the fact of our existence to respect others and ourselves in preserving our holy beliefs we share personally with the Almighty. He judges us and no one else while we heed his judgement to become instrumental in good and wise virtues we can only hope, others can emulate our good examples and as sinners we all are borne into this world, we try our utter best not to exploit the evil in us...however minute that percentage may be...

It is very interesting too for me to read and follow both your perceptions that has its own true roots where you devote to... I am blessed to have and be able to exercise my freedom & liberty in witnessing your evaluations and analogies on faith you both uphold to your hearts.:bow:

I believe, with Dave's concluding sentences on this thread, it has been understood and spoken and I shall close this topic that shed enough exchange from the respectful wisdom expressed by all participating.:bow:

YB. - cheers to all :beer: