Thread: Massive anti-war demonstrations Sep 24-26 - Impeach Bush!

Unless I'm mistaken,"politicus",or something like that,was the ancient greek term for "art of deception".

heh............

Originally Posted by Twicewise

Holy crap!! Is this for real??

Sorry to tell you that you really have no clue at all what is happening behind the curtains of politics.

Why Mickey, I’m so glad that you know what’s really going on in Bosnia, 8,000 miles away from Washington, and that I have no clue even though I live in the United States. Exactly what is the source of your insider information? Since you know what is really going on then you must have multiple, high level informants inside the U.S. government. Oh wait, you don’t do you. You’re getting all of your information from radical, left wing websights like MoveOn.org, Democracy Now, and Air America. Well, with sources like that you must REALLY know what’s going on.

What write here reads like a transcript from CNN or FOX News, this really says enough...

Micky, if you actually knew what was going on then you would know that CNN and FOX have very different journalistic policies. CNN is mostly biased to the left, and focus primarily on liberal causes, whereas FOX is mostly biased to the right and focuses on conservative causes. (But let’s remember here that Micky knows what’s really going on.)

You are so fascinated and manipulated by your government that you are even not willing to consider anything else. A typical - stuck your head in the sand - authority syndrome, never question or criticize any authorities; starting from the parents, school teachers, college profs, preachers, doctors up to governments and large corporations who only want your very best.

Well Micky, I’ve got enough courage to challenge you. If you really knew as much as you pretend to know then you would realize that the American political system is an adversarial system. In other words it is built around the idea of aggressive and pointed challenges against those in power. I happen to agree with much of what this president says. I did not agree with very much that the former president, President Clinton had to say. I vigorously opposed his policies and believed that they were bad for America. So which is it? Was I a courageous freedom fighter back then, but I’m a “stuck in the sand” puppet now? If I choose to support a president I agree with then it’s none of your business. And by the way, there are areas where I disagree with this president. I disagree with his immigration policy. I disagree with his stand on CAFTA. I disagree with his ban on importing pharmaceuticals from other countries. You do know what CAFTA is don’t you Mickey? After all you’re the one who know what he is talking about.

You gave up critical thinking and with it you gave all your responsibilities away to a few others. Did you know that democracy means that the folk controls the powers to be? But how is it really? Approx. 600 people control 280 millions! Do you realize that? Likely not.

I see, you can tell that I gave up critical thinking because I made a post that disagrees with you. Personally I think I’m doing pretty good thinking critically right now. And by the way Micky, America isn’t a democracy it’s a Constitutional Republic. And in a Constitutional Republic the 280 million people elect someone to represent them in Congress. Those 600 congressmen are doing their best to represent the 600 that are sitting back home. If you had ever listened to the debate on the floor of the Senate then you would know that there is no consensus of opinion among American lawmakers. There are vigorous debates about what American policy should be. Usually the debates are between conservative lawmakers and liberal ones, but not always. Sometimes the debate is between those who want greater privacy rights in America against those who want more government rights. Or sometimes the debate is between those who want to restrict the amount of money in political campaigns against those who want to increase the amount of money in political campaigns. – The point is that it is through vigorous debate that American policy is hammered out.

Oh, but the 600 people you were talking about aren’t congressman are they Mickey. No, you’re talking about a secret shadow government who runs everything behind the scenes. Let’s see, who is it that’s playing the role of shadow government this week. Is it the Council on Foreign Relations, could it be the John Birch Society, maybe it’s the Skull and Bones club. I can’t keep track, there are so many shadow governments these days. (Now since you really know what’s going on I can only assume that you have informants on the insides of these shadow governments as well.)

BUT USA is the one which wants to control the world and dictates ALL countries worldwide what to do in ALL matters. If it were Russia or an other country then of course they were to blame.

You know Mickey, 15 years ago it was the Soviet Union in your part of the world. You might want to ask some of the people in your own country whether you would have had the right to speak out against the Soviet Government the way you are the American government. And by they way, America doesn’t want to control you dirt poor little country. Of course I can’t prove we don’t want to control your country, but my informants in the shadow government are telling me that we don’t. And I’m gullible enough to believe every word they say.

You mix something up here, buddy, deliberately or not, but I never ever said something against American People but against the US Government. These are two different pair of shoes, so don't twist my words or try to tell I hate US people which definitely is not true.

With all due respect Mickey, when you criticize the American government you are criticizing the American people. 56 million Americans voted for this president and your words are demening to every one of them. We did elect this government, and we do stand behind it.

About historical events I won't go into a rebuttal here as everything what you described is totally biased or falsified. I'll pick up only two of your examples here, Bosnia was NEVER ever a dictatorship!

Uhmm, could be that you were right. I had the idea that it was a pretty authoritarian regime. Isn’t that the whole reason why Slobodon Mislovitch was overthrown? But it’s your country and you probably know more about it than I do. You might notice here Mickey that I am not claiming to know more about your country than you do. Seems like you could pay me the same courtesy and admit that I might know more about my country than you know. (Of course, with all your secret sources of information inside the government maybe you really do know something I don’t know.)

The next one is WWII. It is a proven fact that besides many german industrialists Prescott Bush (Father of Bush Sen.) and Rockefeller have financed Hitler with a good chunk of money to expedite the development of german military machinery.

So what!!! What does that have to do with whether America liberated France, Britain and other European nations from Naziism? Big deal, Prescott Bush gave some money to Hitler. From what I’ve heard Prescott Bush was a pretty screwed up guy. But you say this like it actually proves something. Does Prescott Bush’s actions mean that America did not liberate Europe from the rise of Naziism? I said it before, and I’ll, say it again. If it hadn’t been for America then all of Europe would be speaking German right now, and that includes you Mickey.

But when the lie involves elements in their own government and military conspiring with outside forces to orchestrate the horrific attacks of September 11th it’s all too much to absorb.

Alright, that is absolutely enough of that. I don’t really give a rat’s rear end who you are or where you live. The American Government did not conspire with terrorists to create 911. That is the most slanderous, vile, contemptible thing that you have said yet. But of course you don’t have any real proof that anything like that happened. All you have is the rambling of America hating liars who have fabricated all manner of falsehood about people they hate. If you have one single scrap of evidence that something like that occurred then bring it forth now. If not, then crawl back under the rock you came from. How dare you make this kind of accusation with no proof whatsover.

And let's go further. This is precisely what we have seen since 9/11 and with other engineered ‘terrorist’ attacks like the London bombings.

Oh, I see that you won’t be welcome in London anymore either. So I guess that Tony Blair and George Bush got together to kill innocent people in London. Exactly what is your evidence that this happened? But in your little make believe world you don’t really need any evidence do you. (But remember Mickey knows what is really going on.)

And I see that you didn’t answer any of the questions I asked you, so let me post them again just in case you forgot what they were.

1. Have you ever been to America? Do you even know what you’re talking about when you talk about Americans?

2. What is your plan to protect the world from the spread of militant Islam?

3. If your plan is so good then I will set up an appointment for you with President Bush and the two of you can plan out together how you are going to protect America and the rest of the world.

4. Have you ever served in the military? Have you ever risked your life in order to rescue someone who is enslaved by a tyrannical ruler?

5. Have you ever spoken to an American soldier? Have you asked that soldier how they feel about risking their lives to rescue ungrateful people like you?

6. Has your country been attacked by terrorists, and did 3,000 of your countrymen die in one day.

7. If your plan isn’t to hunt down the terrorists and blast their sorry butts off of the face of the earth, then what is your plan? (Maybe you should volunteer to carry the peace flag to the terrorists, and hope that they won’t cut your head off for the effort. In fact, I nominate Mickey to carry the flag of peace right now, who agrees with me.)

8. If you don’t want to fight the terrorists in Iraq where do you want to fight them. We are killing terrorists in Iraq everyday. So if Iraq is where the terrorists are then that’s where the American military ought to be as well. Maybe we could send the terrorists to your country and the war could be fought street to street in your hometown. (Because that’s what you’re asking me to do. You’re saying that I should pull the troops out of Iraq and wait for them to show up in my hometown so that I can fight them here.)

9. Here’s the last question. Are you living in a nation that would not be free if it hadn’t been for America? Millions of people are, and a whole lot of them are grateful that America was willing to stand up and fight with them. (Maybe you should ask the people of Iraq whether they want Saddam back again. That would probably settle this argument once and for all.)

And, you know Mickey, I apologize in advance for being so forceful in this reply. You probably really aren't too bad of a guy, you've just believed the lies that other people are telling you. But you know, when you accuse my country of being the master minds behind the worst terrorist attack in American history, then it raises my ire just a little. (You really shouldn't post fighting words unless you want to get into a fight.)

This is a notice, you will not be allowed to **** your vile filth here without being opposed. Your conspiracy lunacy simply is not welcome anymore. In fact, I'm hoping that the Mods will close down this forum. What do these kinds of fanciful conspiracy theories have to do with financial investment anyway?

- TwiceWise

Twicewise......when you are part of one of the mightiest nations ever ,you don`t have to justify your nation to people who have `SOUR-grapes'. People like that remind me of little mutts(puppy dogs) yapping @ the heels of a great dane.Your President Bush has the`balls' to govern and to set GODLY principles which goes against the grain of most of this world, including islam.
I thank GOD ALMIGHTY(JESUS CHRIST) for your country the U.S.A.

Regards
favour(South Africa)

Originally Posted by Twicewise

OK, I’ve had enough,

It is not my practice to engage in flame wars, I’m a man of peace but I am sick and tired of Mickey constantly attacking the country that I love. Mickey there are a lot of us who not only support the effort of George Bush in his war against terrorism, but also believe that America has done a great service by spreading democracy and freedom to enslaved people all of the world.

If it hadn’t been for America Nazism would have conquered all of Europe. The death camps would have become a permanent part of the landscape. Jews, homosexuals, labor leaders, Christians and a whole host of other people would have been eradicated from the face of the earth. But the United States of America joined with other freedom loving nations all around the world to oppose Hitler and his bloody ambitions. Thank God for America – Europe is free because of it.

If it hadn’t been for America the Iron Curtain would never have fallen. East Germany, the Baltic States, and Russia would still be ruled by the dictatorial grip of Communism. Joseph Stalin murdered more than 20 million of his own people. The secret police reported directly to the KGB. Because of the policies of Ronald Reagan the Soviet Union was forced into an arms race that eventually bankrupted the entire nation. Russia is a free nation and a free people because of what America did.

If it hadn’t been for America, Bosnia would still be a dictatorship. If it hadn’t been for America Afghanistan would still be controlled by the Taliban. If it hadn’t been for America Saddam Hussein would still be free to practice genocide against his own people and to invade Kuwait. If it hadn’t been for America Osama Bin Laden would still be resting comfortably in his training camps of Afghanistan.

You should get down on your knees and thank God for the U.S.A. because the U.S.A. has stood up for freedom when no once else was able to. Freedom loving people all over the world have been willing to sacrifice the blood and treasure of their young men and women in order to liberate those who are held captive. Nations like Great Britain, Australia, Italy, Spain, Japan, Canada, Taiwan, South Korea, and others have been willing to join us so that the world may live in peace. They mourn the loss of their sons and daughters who were sent out in the cause of democracy and I don’t appreciate the fact that you are so willing to dismiss that ultimate sacrifice.

George Bush has done nothing but declare war on the terrorist who were willing to kill women and children in order to make a political statement. They attacked us, we did not attack them. We have sent billions of dollars to Muslim nations all over the world in order to strengthen their economies. We have helped build hospitals and to dig wells. What other nation would be willing to send out the amount of humanitarian aid that we have.

This forum has been nothing but a constant drumbeat of hatred against a great and noble people.

So here are some questions for you Mickey.

1. Have you ever been to America? Do you even know what you’re talking about when you talk about Americans?

2. What is your plan to protect the world from the spread of militant Islam?

3. If your plan is so good then I will set up an appointment for you with President Bush and the two of you can plan out together how you are going to protect America and the rest of the world.

4. Have you ever served in the military? Have you ever risked your life in order to rescue someone who is enslaved by a tyrannical ruler?

5. Have you ever spoken to an American soldier? Have you asked that soldier how they feel about risking their lives to rescue ungrateful people like you?

6. Has your country been attacked by terrorists, and did 3,000 of your countrymen die in one day.

7. If your plan isn’t to hunt down the terrorists and blast their sorry butts off of the face of the earth, then what is your plan? (Maybe you should volunteer to carry the peace flag to the terrorists, and hope that they won’t cut your head off for the effort. In fact, I nominate Mickey to carry the flag of peace right now, who agrees with me.)

8. If you don’t want to fight the terrorists in Iraq where do you want to fight them. We are killing terrorists in Iraq everyday. So if Iraq is where the terrorists are then that’s where the American military ought to be as well. Maybe we could send the terrorists to your country and the war could be fought street to street in your hometown. (Because that’s what you’re asking me to do. You’re saying that I should pull the troops out of Iraq and wait for them to show up in my hometown so that I can fight them here.)

9. Here’s the last question. Are you living in a nation that would not be free if it hadn’t been for America? Millions of people are, and a whole lot of them are grateful that America was willing to stand up and fight with them. (Maybe you should ask the people of Iraq whether they want Saddam back again. That would probably settle this argument once and for all.)


Don’t make me have to come back here again.

- TwiceWise

Thank-you!!!!!!! This a country that people are trying to get in any way that they can!!!!
And there are those who would die for freedom to express discontent. Tell me this please, In those countries that birth terrorism, what would happen to any one of them if they were to even post the slightest critism of thier country?

The way I see it is all of you are right. There are people controling populations by selling out for gains. there are people dying for someones freedoms everyday. There are evil people who want to take away our freedoms in the name of security, and bash the heads of anybody who diagrees as seen in Utah, New York and Alabama when people march or gather. There is people saving lives all over the world to stop the suffering. Americans care and pray and believe that thier leaders would do the right thing. For those that believe that the right or the left has anything to do with world agenda think again. Floods, famine, wars, talk of peace but no peace. Have you noticed the so called terrorist are gaining momentum. Who are the terrorists. It seems that Cheney has been lobbing for the ability to torture as if they havent already. We are starting to see the chain reaction that all of this national security has set upon our nation as we quible over who was responsible for the deaths of so many people in Alabama. and it seems that the chain reaction will evetually lead to president Bush on all accounts as we see indictments going forward on many levels in his administration. And as the earth rumbles with quakes, tidal waves and hurricanes and the wars are so common that they give everything the name war, reminds us of what Jesus warned us two thousand years ago Be aware of the signs of the time for when these things come to pass the time will be near! Soon we will have the ability to help many people as Bryan prepares us for the future. More than ever people around the world need help. When Bryan fixes our problems will we be strong enough to do what is right or should we do what we want. This national card thing should be a red flagg to all americans and peoples of the whole world. Lets just say no! It is an agenda to follow the patriot act to get us closer to a one world gov. and the mark of the beast. Will we be able to continue with this new program if we are under the corporate one world gov.!? I think not. PIPS would be doomed. Now I am rambling but food for thought. Lets look towards him who gives us the truth and quit believing the lies that destoy all that is good. Aloha Brant

Originally Posted by pagehill

.... This national card thing should be a red flagg to all americans and peoples of the whole world. Lets just say no! It is an agenda to follow the patriot act to get us closer to a one world gov. and the mark of the beast. Will we be able to continue with this new program if we are under the corporate one world gov.!? I think not. PIPS would be doomed. Now I am rambling but food for thought. Lets look towards him who gives us the truth and quit believing the lies that destoy all that is good. Aloha Brant

As far as the national ID card I questioned all of my senators & congress people to reconsider this legislation & put my concerns to them about what would they do when someone found a way to alter & steal anothers ID? implant a chip ? I stated I would not submit to anything like that !! If more people would get involved it might do something , but most are too busy trying to survive & enjoy the little free time they have.

Nazism is alive and well in America,I'm afraid.It's just taken a different name;I think it's called Neo-conservatism now.
You know the old saying:if it looks,walks and talks like a duck,it's a duck.Don't anyone forget that the Bush patriarch was an ardent supporter of Adolph Hitler who was a "devout Catholic",but he was also obsessed with the occult;most world leaders were/are.
You might say that you can't blame Bush1 and Shrub for their patriarch's actions,but when they adopt his philosophy,you have to admit,it don't look good.
9-11 was Shrub's,whose Skull & Bones nickname,by the way,is Temporary,was his "reichstagg".He's only paving the way for the next U.S. dictator whose atrocities and cruelty will dwarf Shrub's administration's acts by a light-year.
You better wake up,Amerika,nothing is meant to be "temporary",except for goob's presidency;it's meant to escalate and become a never-ending tyranny.
Several "wars" have been declared by U.S. administrations over the last few decades,bringing only escalations of what they war against.They declared war on illiteracy,but there's more illiteracy;war on drugs,but there's more drugs;war on terrorism,but there will be more terrorism.No matter what they declare war on,there's always more of it to war against.That's because they feed what they war against.
The so-called war on terrorism is meant to go on for decades,as the administration has openly admitted on several ocasions,possibly generations.
But the rest of the world will soon have enough and they most certainly WILL declare war on Amerika because of it,and Amerika will most certainly be annihilated.And even though Canada and Mexico are NOT Amerika,the rest of the world will see them as such,seeing as they are Amerika's "allies".They also will be annihilated,along with Australia,New Zealand,South Africa,Britain,most Western European countries,possibly even France,that don't get taken over by force by the next superpower.
And don't forget:Shrub is a WAR PRESIDENT;he sets priorities and bases his decisions with WAR on his MIND.He's not in it to make peace.He and his cronies are making unbelievable money with this current war.True he's only a puppet,but that doesn't absolve him of anything."Evil has found a willing servant",to use his own vernacular.His policies and those of his successor will bankrupt the nation,selling the once proud people of the West into slavery,while he basks in untold wealth and security.
He'll not be made to suffer for it though,at least not in THIS lifetime;he's doing exactly what he's told to do,not by the American people,but by his *******.

rahly, you're full of s***. You sound like a terrorist yourself with the wild accusations you are making. We LOVE our President and we voted for him. Down with narrow minded people like you.

Originally Posted by sivart

rahly, you're full of s***. You sound like a terrorist yourself with the wild accusations you are making. We LOVE our President and we voted for him. Down with narrow minded people like you.

Are you for real??

That's funny,sivart,that's really funny.Accusations I'm making?Me,a terrorist?I can't even begin to describe what's wrong with THAT statement.
Most all of what I've said was,is or will be documented fact.You should wake up and smell the sh*t from where it lays,or is it where it lies?
No,I'm no terrorist,I'm just wide awake in the early years of the 21st century.
I'd point you somewhere you might learn something,but it'd probably be a waste of both your time and mine.
Your "President" was NEVER elected,not in the way you would think.You may have voted for him,you may love him,but you can't speak for the rest of Amerika.
As for narrow minded,that's one thing I've never been accused of being;no-one I've known is more open minded than I.But,yes,down with narrow-minded people;I'll give you that.