PIPS/10x5/BM - Objective Point of View

The entire forum population seems to now be split into pro-BM and anti-BM camps. With many more in the anti camp than in the pro camp. I don't believe this is neccessarily correct. To paraphrase what Hasse said in response to one of my posts in another thread: Most are seeing in black and white, yet there are shades of grey here as well.

Before I start this probably lengthy post, let me state my position. I firmly believe Marek did the right thing (those who accuse him of now causing the death of 10x5/Pips are, frankly, stupid). I firmly believe BM was wrong to deceive. I firmly believe that BM has not acted in a proper fashion with regard to his postings to Marek. BUT, and this is important, I DO NOT believe this is conclusive proof of him being a conman.

FACT - PIPS was raided by BNM and is under investigation.
FACT - BM has since then lived a difficult existance. I realise many members have also.
FACT - We were all told not to "Loan" more than we could afford. Those who did so have to take some responsibility for their own hardship. Sorry, but it's true.
FACT - Until BNM finish their investigation WE DO NOT KNOW if there is any money or if we were lied to. Therefore WE CANNOT JUDGE THIS YET.

UNKNOWN - The reason why HALotto disappeared. We do not know for sure if it was pulled by BNM, if BM closed it because he received threats, or if he took the money and ran. Closing a program a few days after opening does not seem like a good way of stealing money. He would surely have got more by waiting a few weeks.
OUTCOME - We cannot accuse BM of stealing this money because WE DO NOT KNOW YET.

FACT - BM starts 10x5 (plus MechCash and maybe others) under pseodonyms. The reasons for doing this are obvious. If he started something under his name, it would attract a lot of bad attention and would fail. It seems 10x5 was doing fairly well. This probably would not have happened had it been under BM's name. Plus, he would have had to field difficult questions about HALotto, which may be out of his control legally. WE DO NOT KNOW.

FACT - BM was WRONG to lie and deceive. This is perhaps illegal (obtaining money through deception?), but I understand his reasons. However I do not condone them. One possibility (and it is only that) is that he was acting out of a kind of desperation rather than a deliberate attempt to deceive. His mistake was launching 10x5 at all. This should not have launched.

FACT - BM was RIGHT to lie to Marek initially. Well, maybe not "right", but my take on this is that had he told Marek he was Barry James from the start, Marek would have been in an untenable position. It was better for Marek and the rest of the Rolclub team that they were not aware.

FACT - BMs response to Marek was not very "mature". But again, I understand why. He was angry and embarrassed. I might have acted the same way myself. Hopefully, should BNM give good news, the air can be cleared between these two men and their friendship resumed.

FACT - BM should have updated members on Pips. Even if he had no more news, a quick "Hi, sorry, no news as yet" would have been enough. However we know from past experience that Bryan does not have the best communication skills.

So.... what do we have? A con-man trying to steal our money through lies and deception? Or the actions of a desperate man, trying to improve his meagre existance and perhaps help others at the same time?

The ONLY thing that will tell us the TRUTH, is the results of the investigation by Bank Negara Malaysia. Until then, WE SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW.

Should BNM give the thumbs down, then BM will have his come-uppance and will probably face jail. He will pay the price for what he did. Should they give the thumbs up, how many of you currently pouring vitriol will quietly slink back to Pips to get to your accounts?

People should reserve their judgements until then.

Let the flaming begin....

-Neil.

Thank-Q Neil for summarily presenting the facts & perspectives in their respective context and again, conclusion as it now stands or appear, a factoid of a demise we all just have to face with...black or white, grey to some as they blindly chose to accept.

I firmly believe among many hundreds to 1000s that met up, drank with and felt buddied to Bryan, had a sincere warmth and rapport with his vision that spells godness we have within us as well. He became a catalyst to what we can become in discovering the potentials of uncovering the other alternative with an "outside the box" theory.

However, and albeit a Western or Muslim oriented Court of Law, judicially speaking at any extent of the argument, the Pro-and the anti's have one irrefutable truth to accept, deception is not granted and tolerated...however way you want to support the actions that culminates into a good and well intended motivation for posing as a humanitarian or being a maverick among money makers in this environment.

Bryan pulled off his shots where possible, but what is now more disturbing is , to have a handful retorting back, despite the clear summarys of facts disclosed and uncovered in broad daylight, that we have these few who truly are deliberately blinded by choice, and returning to this forum to continue the con practise with their "con talk" and still rebukes our forum's hospitality to them.

What shall we do with these few practically "undesirables" that still tries to divide the membership with their disloyalty and protracted attempts to divide the forum???


We have to look at the smaller and second details being ****ed out by these handfuls... if at all they lost their posts and voice on and everything this Forum stands and is about... then we have reasons too to see their departure for good.... since it does sound and made apparently clear that their wish to be viewed in distancing from our valued arguments are remote to theirs....why entertain them further in ROLClub Forum....leave with your repugnant echoes of a pro/supporter or whatever you are, for elsewhere ?




YB. - Cheers to the RC CARE Group....:beer:

Neil

A very good and balanced post. A lawyer would certainly like your assessment, and you are probably right in most of your thinking.
As you correctly said, we are dealing with humans, and those of us that have been in commercial business knows that this picture is not black and white.

However, I still tend to think that BM is balancing on a very thin line, perhaps even fallen off that line!...and most of us that have withnessed a similar fiasco, knows that PIPS is dead.

the truth

Hi,

Bryans problem appears to be that he listens to no one else other than himself, I can to a point understand his reasons for starting up new ventures under an alias as it it does himself no good under his own name. But his lack of communication is the problem, we still do no not know the reason for Halotto ceasing- he gave the reason as his Hoster and that he would startup again under a new hoster this never happened and we never heard anymore.

He said that he would not post about Pips until he had something positive to report this has gone on now for several months as it has been said before all he needed to do was post was that there was nothing to say. Then of course various members receive direct communication direct from BNM requesting their assistance, Bryan must have been informed about this.

From now on we must think that any new venture that we are offered maybe initiated by Bryan and be wary of taking part, for all we know he maybe behind the Iraqi dinar!!!!!!! and that will be doomed as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by abbey56

Hi,

From now on we must think that any new venture that we are offered maybe initiated by Bryan and be wary of taking part, for all we know he maybe behind the Iraqi dinar!!!!!!! and that will be doomed as well.

---

:biggrin: Hahaaa... this is a snappy way to start the Wednesday with a great guffaww...:rofl:


Soon...the pro camps will be onto Adster and Mike for this!!!:rofl: :rofl: :noserious


What a Dynar-mic delusion we get from dinar-driven members....:ro_emote:


However, the war there I hope is not suggested as a protracted PIPs related cause...for then we will have George & Tony into the fray here...:eek:




Cheers to the RC CARE Group...:beer:

Hi,

Its just my warped sense of humour playing havoc while we wait. From what I read yesterday I thought GB was already here under an alias- as for Tony Blair, he might be masquerading under the alias John Prescott or Bonking John, (do we have a member of that name).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the_truth

However, I still tend to think that BM is balancing on a very thin line, perhaps even fallen off that line!...and most of us that have withnessed a similar fiasco, knows that PIPS is dead.

the truth

---

Very true - the line is extremely thin and he may have fallen from it.

Time will tell, I guess. It always does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nej

The entire forum population seems to now be split into pro-BM and anti-BM camps. With many more in the anti camp than in the pro camp. I don't believe this is neccessarily correct. To paraphrase what Hasse said in response to one of my posts in another thread: Most are seeing in black and white, yet there are shades of grey here as well.

Before I start this probably lengthy post, let me state my position. I firmly believe Marek did the right thing (those who accuse him of now causing the death of 10x5/Pips are, frankly, stupid). I firmly believe BM was wrong to deceive. I firmly believe that BM has not acted in a proper fashion with regard to his postings to Marek. BUT, and this is important, I DO NOT believe this is conclusive proof of him being a conman.

FACT - PIPS was raided by BNM and is under investigation.
FACT - BM has since then lived a difficult existance. I realise many members have also.
FACT - We were all told not to "Loan" more than we could afford. Those who did so have to take some responsibility for their own hardship. Sorry, but it's true.
FACT - Until BNM finish their investigation WE DO NOT KNOW if there is any money or if we were lied to. Therefore WE CANNOT JUDGE THIS YET.

UNKNOWN - The reason why HALotto disappeared. We do not know for sure if it was pulled by BNM, if BM closed it because he received threats, or if he took the money and ran. Closing a program a few days after opening does not seem like a good way of stealing money. He would surely have got more by waiting a few weeks.
OUTCOME - We cannot accuse BM of stealing this money because WE DO NOT KNOW YET.

FACT - BM starts 10x5 (plus MechCash and maybe others) under pseodonyms. The reasons for doing this are obvious. If he started something under his name, it would attract a lot of bad attention and would fail. It seems 10x5 was doing fairly well. This probably would not have happened had it been under BM's name. Plus, he would have had to field difficult questions about HALotto, which may be out of his control legally. WE DO NOT KNOW.

FACT - BM was WRONG to lie and deceive. This is perhaps illegal (obtaining money through deception?), but I understand his reasons. However I do not condone them. One possibility (and it is only that) is that he was acting out of a kind of desperation rather than a deliberate attempt to deceive. His mistake was launching 10x5 at all. This should not have launched.

FACT - BM was RIGHT to lie to Marek initially. Well, maybe not "right", but my take on this is that had he told Marek he was Barry James from the start, Marek would have been in an untenable position. It was better for Marek and the rest of the Rolclub team that they were not aware.

FACT - BMs response to Marek was not very "mature". But again, I understand why. He was angry and embarrassed. I might have acted the same way myself. Hopefully, should BNM give good news, the air can be cleared between these two men and their friendship resumed.

FACT - BM should have updated members on Pips. Even if he had no more news, a quick "Hi, sorry, no news as yet" would have been enough. However we know from past experience that Bryan does not have the best communication skills.

So.... what do we have? A con-man trying to steal our money through lies and deception? Or the actions of a desperate man, trying to improve his meagre existance and perhaps help others at the same time?

The ONLY thing that will tell us the TRUTH, is the results of the investigation by Bank Negara Malaysia. Until then, WE SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW.

Should BNM give the thumbs down, then BM will have his come-uppance and will probably face jail. He will pay the price for what he did. Should they give the thumbs up, how many of you currently pouring vitriol will quietly slink back to Pips to get to your accounts?

People should reserve their judgements until then.

Let the flaming begin....

-Neil.

---

Good post.

Monica

And the sychophantic lemmings fall into line...Watch that last step; It's a doosie...

Interesting,

I always enjoy a reasoned response like nej provided us, and it was very well done. I agree with almost all of it, except one point that really pissed me off over the whole HA fiasco, and that is, why didn't he post the reasons it just vanished, along with some of our money, and although it may not have been a planned scam, it sure as hell turned out that way. A simple, sorry, the name HA is done and no server will accept us, and as soon as I can, I will make refunds accordingly to all those who made deposits to HA.

Nothing, not a peep, and then all these other scams running under our very noses, now if that doesn't piss you off, nothing will. LOL Sorry, but I remained optimistic along with most others waiting patiently even having heard more and more reasons why PIPS would never be back, but like most, I want the truth just like you would want to read the last chapter of a book, good or bad, or the ending of a movie, we have come this far, so I can't wait for the ending. (g)

Good luck to all, Mike