Thread: Faith and Reason

I did not think that the friendly banter in "Questions to BM" would turn as contentious as they did. I feel partly responsible for this and I apologize if any nerves were exposed by my words. I also feel compelled to offer, humbly, some focus to our little family, that we may keep our eye on the ball. (Yes, this family is a little disfunctional at times, but that keeps it interesting).

Part of the problem, as I see it (and I may not see as you do), is that we have issues with semantics. We have differing definitions and interpretations of what we perceive, and, as we all know, perception is the key here. Whether you think BM a hero or villain, there are some fundamental ideas which must be defined and segregated. These main ideas are: Belief, Faith, Logic, Reason and Conviction.

Before I go any further, I would ask for the assistance of Everwiser, Largo, MingDynasty, and others in my feeble attempts to part the wheat from the chaff.

BELIEF: That which is held to be true or the truth. This is intimate, personal and individual to each

FAITH: The belief that SOMEONE or SOMETHING can bring about a desired or anticipated result, conclusion or outcome

LOGIC: Formal guiding principles of a discipline, school or science

REASON: Basis or motivation for an action, decision or conviction. Also the capacity for logical, rational and analytical thoughts

CONVICTION: A fixed or strong belief. Also intimate, personal and individual

At the risk of putting words into the mouths (or fingers) of others, what I, Everwiser, Largo, Ming, Goldeneye, 4D and others have been attempting to do is NOT TO instill a Belief or Faith with you; rather, we have been offering Logic and Reason, while maintaining our honor and integrity sprinkled with our own personal convictions.

I HAVE stated that in order to examine this particular situation, one must step outside of passion and conviction, setting aside our faith and belief, to rationally and logically examine what we DO have here. Simply screaming at the heavens when it rains gains nothing. BM is the frontman, and as such, will gather the most attention. But do you hold him solely responsible for what is currently transpiring? One cannot transfer personal issues and shortcomings upon another and then absolve themselves of participation. Whatever your motivation for joining Pips, it does not change the facts of what was, is and will be. BM is the Captain of this ship, but one cannot always be at the wheel. This does not excuse his actions or inactions. It merely is. But, from what I am reading, that isn't the REAL issue here.

EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion. NO ONE is entitled to abuse. We are devolving into a pit of TG all of a sudden. I beg all of you to practice a little restraint and grace. Disagree and debate at will, but do not attack another just because they don't see as you do. How does calling one an ***** help you or Pips?

I will end now, waiting for help from those who have spent time RATIONALLY discussing and examining the facts and assumptions presented. Hopefully, I won't need to bore all of you with more lessons in what we already know, but fail to utilize.

Arcturus

GREAT POST

Very intelligent statement Arcturus

I agree 100%

Nicely said, as usual Arcturus.
What you have, besides all the other atributes that make up a sturdy character, is conviction. Conviction will not be swayed by common debate or augument, no matter where the true lies. It is infallable and defenceable to a point of stubborness, unswerving untill concluded in victory or defeat.
Greatness is born from conviction, the mind accepts its own truth and follows that path, undestructable in faith knowing the answer is already formulated and correct.
Conviction is the discoverer within us, the mystery of the unknown, untrodden paths, new horizons, a lonely road trod straight down the centre.
We could list the fatalities and the heroes, we all fit in somewhere, but the nice part of the human condition is the ability to shake off the dust when beaten, and start all over again.
Somehow, I think words will never dent, fingers never hold, that which burns so brightly within another persons belief, but its worth a try :)
Regards
paddy

Most kind, Paddy. I shall tip a glass in your honor this evening.

Arcturus

....and to MrLover and Newlife...........another glass........(hope I don't have to thank too many more tonight)

I am merely a dreamer of dreams, a traveler on the road, a liver of life. I look always for the good, and do what I can to fix the bad

Arcturus

Originally Posted by ArcturusI

....and to MrLover and Newlife...........another glass........(hope I don't have to thank too many more tonight)

I am merely a dreamer of dreams, a traveler on the road, a liver of life. I look always for the good, and do what I can to fix the bad

Arcturus

If you keep this up you better not "THANK AND DRIVE".

2 words: Wayside rest

Arcturus my friend,

Thanks for being a mediator of things…
You’re totally right…about almost turning into a TG discussion…

On your Philosophic lecture I have something to add about CONVICTION….
As this was the igniting spark for this so called discussion…

I have observed a phenomena that happens when someone have a very strong CONVICTION of something…
to give an example…

Someone have strong conviction about something and state this publicly…
This will for sure bring on an EMOTION in the listeners…
this will be POSITIVE emotion OR a negative one…
AND this EMOTION will lead to a REACTION…
either POSITIVE or Negative depending on the viewpoint of the guy reacting…


SO…this phenomena can be observed in all the postings here…
CONVICTION (stated) will trigger an EMOTION (with the listener) which leads to a REACTION (manifested by the listener)

This 3-unity is what is going on all over the place…and is the reason for every argument, fight and war that has ever been started in history…

NOW…to live ABOVE this one has to take on the attitude like Arcturus is expressing so wisely…
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“I HAVE stated that in order to examine this particular situation, one must step outside of passion and conviction, setting aside our faith and belief, to rationally and logically examine what we DO have here. Simply screaming at the heavens when it rains gains nothing.”
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So folks….
Why not USE some of these advices in our discussions here…
At least I’m willing to take them on…

So what do you say Folks…?

Largo

You always do Largo my friend, but talking to the blind you may find them deaf too, when want, wants ;)
You have to accept that the street is a mixture of mankind. Cross the road to avoid the bullies and locke your house against the uncouth next door, whatever, there is always a haven quite close for commonsense and good company.
Cheers mate
paddy