I find it surprising that BN was so forthright in giving information to a caller with questions. As one who is entrusted with a duty, such as a BN representative OR a moderator of an informational forum, regardless of whether or not that duty was assigned or assumed, one would think that some diligence and discretion would be employed prior to the release of information which can, in either situation, do a great deal of good AND a great deal of harm.
One must also consider that we have been given information that supposedly has been confirmed by the Swedish Embassy as "true and accurate" which is contrary to this latest word from BN. They cannot both be true or accurate. In light of this, what do we have? This is a serious, knock down, drag out of "he said, she said" which leaves MUCH to the imagination, and very little in the way of true facts.
To the Inn Keeper I pose the following:
To whom do you swear allegiance? From where do you get your recitations? I would ask that you verify and detail your information for the membership, as it is in direct confrontation with the fact that all attempts at garnering the same from BN have all been met with "no comment" or deliberate indifference. It has also been 'confirmed' that the investigation is over. A little due diligence would demonstrate that this type of information is not readily accessible, nor is it allowed under generally accepted rules of investigation and privacy. Anyone can claim knowledge; what is convenient is the posture of the source.
It is not wise to challenge one on controversial turf. Do not regard this as such. However, all of the information offered is in question, both new and old, and most is contrary to protocol and custom. Kindly verify the information in writing. What IS known from BN is thus: There is no "Official" communication. None. No detail, no comment. This has been experienced and supported by several who have tried to gather this information in the past. All claims to the contrary have proven misleading and false.
Unless and until you can positively identify and verify the source and the message, your words are simply a tall tale, spun by an Inn Keeper for the amusement of (????????)
You cannot claim to be a disciple of one thing while actively pursuing another path. You cannot serve two *******. Either you are correct in one thing, and not the other. You cannot have it both ways. Deliberately misleading the membership, or acting in bad faith, serves no purpose but it's own. Whether or not one has an active interest in this is no longer the issue. What IS the issue is the self-serving prophets of good and evil spreading their messages of salvation or doom, the active denial of those who don't know but need to participate, and the blind faith exhibited by those who will follow ANYONE who says "I KNOW". Well, you don't know. Very few do. VERY few.
To all who would seek to ignore their own voice, ignore the path of logic and challenge these words, I ask of you one simple thing: Have YOU done YOUR homework, or are you blindly following where others lead? Question everything, retain that which is good. Sunrise, sunset. It is all transitory.
Arcturus
PS: Don't shy away from criticism. Thrive on it. One cannot learn without an opposing view. Point and counterpoint. However, the manic ravings of those who live in Doghouses, and have Style-ish monikers, SHOULD and WILL be ignored. If one cannot act responsibly, rationally, one has no business debating the issue. Passion is good, passion is healthy. Abuse is not.
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08-02-2006, 02:41 PM #1
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BN Investigation Update - "The Inn Keeper's Tale"
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08-02-2006, 02:46 PM #2
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WOW. . . . for your first post that was awesome
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08-02-2006, 02:50 PM #3
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Nicely stated BOSS:
On top of things as usual.
forely
________________________
You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me.
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08-02-2006, 02:59 PM #4
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You are too kind.
No matter your values or beliefs, IF you search for a straighter path, or a higher plane, then one must consider all possibilities. Logic and truth are much more powerful, much more fun, than lies and conjecture. If one simply looks at a picture and discredits it PRIOR to considering the motivation, then that is a sad, lonely, and closed mind.
An open mind allows for good and evil, loss and triumph, and always strives for balance. I could not remain silent any longer. Too many have been lead down the Rosy path without being told that Roses have thorns. Too many have been mislead by those who appear to be trustworthy.
Simple rules: If it seems to good to be true, it probably is. If it doesn't seem to make sense, it probably doesn't. The first reaction is usually the correct one. Question everything. Life is still just a game; in the end, it is the same for prince or pauper, rich or poor. We enter the world with nothing, we will leave with nothing. Enjoy the ride while it lasts. Wouldn't you rather laugh and smile then frown and complain?
As I said, it's all transitory.
Arcturus
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08-02-2006, 03:14 PM #5
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The info we got from Swedish Embassy and Marek are in very close agreement:
Embassy:
"We have been in contact with Banc Negara who said that the investegation NOW is finished.
They (BON) are now turning over the case To day or to morrow to the State attorneys office for further investegation.
They expect the investegation there will take another 2 months."
and
"After a number of teleconversations we have been informed that the investigation are still an ongoing process at Bank Negara (Last time we talked to them ref. my first email to you, they confirmed that the report would be handed over the very same day or the next day). Bank Negara is now confirming that the report will be handed over next week. Bank Negara will in the connection to the handover ask the proceutor (riksåklagarembe) to speed up their work, but they would not commit themself as to how long time it would take until any decision was made."
Marek:
We are nearly done with the investigations.
We have reason to believe that things arent all as they should be, and therefor have our Deputy officer to review the findings, before we send it to the public prosecuter. BoN is now positive twards further investigations of pipsinc findings. And further investigation are only done when we have Strong reason to believe "not good conduct of business."
It seems to me that at the time the Embassy talked to the bank the investigation was finished or very close to be finished and BN was intending to forward the file to the prosecutors. Probably at the last moment, because of the complexity of the findings, they decided to give the file to their Deputy Officer to be reviewed before to be sent to the prosecutor.
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08-02-2006, 04:13 PM #6
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ArcturusI,
I am completely in agreement with your philosophy. All things considered here are always deemed to be either the truth or a speculation thereof yet none of it is of the truth as the truth is yet to be known to the masses. Only a select few really know the real truth and they are not in a position to give out any such information or they may change the outcome should it be told.
There are many that have agendas and these agendas I do not see as in complete alignment with outcome the masses want and desire. It is sad that the masses are led to believe things that appear to look like the truth and come to them wrapped in disguise that one would assume looked quite truthful yet it is all decieving and the question one would ask is why? That is a truth that may not be known as the untrustworthy will not divulge to anyone why they do what they do and what agendas do they hold their allegences to.
To look at what is out there to determine what is going on and what to believe one must look at the facts. In looking at the facts you must understand that facts are as you see them and do not always show you or demonstrate the truth. Truth and Facts are regarded differently as you examine them but once you see them in all dimensions you will then see all there is. So, in looking and reading the facts as given to you, first realize that facts are multi dimensional. You may see a side of the facts that is flat sided yet another person is given the facts quite differently and see a rounded side -- one sees the facts as flat , the other round. Which is right? Which knows the truth? Neither. It is only when they are open enough to allow their minds to look at the facts from all angles will they then see the truth that is residing in the facts.
When you are told facts in this forum and elsewhere you are given only one sided facts and you can not see the whole. You really do not know the whole picture and you may well be surprised to discover that what you have been told and what you have been led to believe is quite different from what is real.
Beware of those that tell you they know the truth because they do not - beware of those that tell you they are seeking the truth because they are not - one that has the faith in a successful outcome because they have faith in the dreamer will not seek facts or truths as they know all demensions of the facts are not exposed therefore they can not discover such answers. They know the answers are held close to the source of truth because it needs to be for the safetly of the successful outcome.
Ming
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08-02-2006, 04:41 PM #7
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Originally Posted by mingdynasty
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08-02-2006, 05:06 PM #8
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MingDynasty, you are too gracious.
Way2go:
Point taken.
Counterpoint:
While on the surface they seem to be in agreement, look at them forensically. The timing is off. The assumptions don't quite sync up. I do acknowledge your bridge between the two, I just cannot make the same connection. In my (humble) opinion, they are opposed, as the Swedish "truth" assumes one course, while the latest "truth" assumes another. There is much more at stake, much more happening, than meets the eye, no matter what your position.
Interesting, though. Most (members) see this investigation as more personal than business. I wonder why that is? Recall that even Bryan admitted to some shortcomings in PicPay, and that it was quickly determined that it was in violation of certain rules.......... But why are so many so quick to villify or martyr Bryan? Some make it sound like he was completely alone in this endeavor. Now why is that? It would seem that there are those less interested in determining the truth, than to instill fear and confusion among the membership. There are those who are not interested in the "what", only the "who".
The tenor of the Swedish message is business; most others are personal. EVEN IF you take this on face value, to whom are they pointing the finger? Has it ever been disclosed "officially"? There are several companies involved here, that are being called "Pips" generically. There are many opportunities for misquoting, misrepresentation, misdirection.
I stand by my initial post. I challenge (all) of you to do your own homework. PLEASE NOTE I DO NOT MEAN CALLING BN, SWEDISH CONSULATE, ETC. Simply lay out the "facts" over the last few months. What is the value of knowledge if it has not been gained individually? Start there, then move on to the scrutiny of minutia.
One further caution: Translation is an art. What gets lost is the intent. Think of the word "Bad" or "Cool". Translate it literally and you may lose the intent of the conversation. For all of those who speak more than one language, you will understand what I mean (and you already know that the English language is really a mess, compared to most others).
Look at the Posts side by side and take them at face value. Then, put them in the context of all the other "facts" that exist in the Pips universe, both real and imagined. I believe that most will be quite surprised at the picture represented.
Now, back to the actual debate - the point I was making is in the first paragraph of the post; my question is in the third, my observation in the sixth. I believe a while back someone posted a ruse about having a friend/relative/etc that was Interpol and the plane was missing.........it was written well, and I KNOW many, many hearts shattered in the first few sentences. That is the best support I have for my point.
And, yes, I believe the messages to be contradictory in tenor to each other, and in substance to the "facts" at hand. Wishful thinking, on both sides of the fence, does not make it so.
Dear members, do not listen to me. Do not follow my words. Follow your own thoughts, your own hearts. Reality is all about perception; I choose to live in a world that I perceive, and dream dreams that I have. I do not wish to exist according to someone else's view of the world, and dream the dreams of another. Accept advice from any and all, it is most welcome and there are many jewels to be found. But to abandon your own thoughts, your own heart, just because someone said so? Take life by the horns, experience it for yourself. Don't take my word for it, go out and get it for yourself.
If it is, it will be. If it isn't, it never was.
Arcturus
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08-02-2006, 05:09 PM #9
My dear fellows,
Let's not forget the MIRACLES...
No matter what is considered as facts or truths or logic...
miracles STILL do happen...
Now it's hard to believe that the outcome of the investigation should be revealed soon, or Very Soon, for that matter, if you look only to the facts and truths regarding this issue or if you even apply logic to it...It all seems to DRAG OUT IN TIME...and looking at what OFFICIAL answers we have from the Bank to the Swedish Embassy...it doesn't look that good at all...so to PREDICT that there will be a POSITIVE OUTCOME VERY SOON...will be considered as "balony"...or wishful thinking...
Of course all KNOWS that investigations takes looonnggg time...
Of course all KNOWS that you can't win against Big Brother...
Of course all KNOWS that all banks are to powerful..so BM can't win...
We all KNOW all these things...
BUT...then there is the MIRACLE...
MIRACLES DO HAPPEN...OR?
Let me give you an example...
Let's go back in time to 1989:
At that time:
Everybody KNEW that the Soviet Union was as powerful as the USA...
Everybody KNEW that the Soviet Union could not be taken down...
Everybody Knew that it would take a Global Nuclear War to do this...
But that would bring us all down...
What Happened in just a FEW WEEKS...?
The WHOLE OF SOVIET UNION was taken down by a MIRACLE...
That's my explanation any how...I believe that it was taken down by PURE THOUGHT...
What's YOUR explanation...?
It's Only MY OWN Thoughts
Largo
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08-02-2006, 05:14 PM #10
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Wow All Of You Have Great Posts
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