My heart sank.

When I first saw BM in Hawaii, I instantaneously knew that my $39,000 loaned had been lost and likewise the loans of all my friends that I had introduced. I 'read him' like an open book. When I eventually spoke with him, it only made me feel worse and I knew beyond all reasonable doubt that he would get into trouble. In a way I felt sorry for him, since my first similar situation (one of many) in 1959 when I lost £36,000 Sterling in my own electronics development company [a fortune in those days] to a person with a similar type of mind (I shall not use the correct medical terminology) sadly ended up being caught by Interpol in South Africa.
I am sure that BM in his own mind started out with good intent but as all people do, with a similar problem of the mind, it always goes wrong.
Yes, we should feel very angry but some people just cannot help the way their minds work and therefore, we should, at the same time pity him (SM was just being led by her husband).
I do not think any body has posted such a post before from two points of view.

I felt exactly the same when I viewed the video's.You are right JS, this has not be aired in such a way before.

My my JS you sure have had a run of bad luck.
I must applaud your attitude though. An impartial viewpoint rather than one based on emotion, and we have seen our fair share on this forum, does open up quite a different and wider picture.
May I ask, without any critical observation or comment, why you would invest such a large amount?. Its a great puzzle to me, since, over the course of the last 12 months or so, many have come onto this forum with almost the same, one off, large intial investment. I really would be interested in knowing why someone would risk so much in one throw with no guarantee of a return.
Please dont take offence, I mean no harm or judgement. Its the psychology behind such a committment that interests myself.
If one is married, to stray from that bond must be a similar risk all in one moment, and to damn with the consequencies. Is that the same attitude, gamble, win or lose, the same reasoning that winning, no matter what the cost, no matter what the game, is an emotional personal decision, yet losing seems to be everyone elses fault.
Not so you may say, but the proof, especially where money is concerned, lies within the pages of this very forum. Money, it seems, is top dog is most peoples minds. Make a buck and spend less, that way, you have covered tomorows expenses. Gamble a buck and hope to win a bit extra back, thats the nature of things. But to gamble a large sum in a win/lose venture has me at a loss as to the reasoning behind that kind of a gamble, unless one has convinced themselves that they cannot lose. That must be the answer :)
Cheers
paddy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jock Strap

When I first saw BM in Hawaii, I instantaneously knew that my $39,000 loaned had been lost and likewise the loans of all my friends that I had introduced. I 'read him' like an open book. When I eventually spoke with him, it only made me feel worse and I knew beyond all reasonable doubt that he would get into trouble. In a way I felt sorry for him, since my first similar situation (one of many) in 1959 when I lost £36,000 Sterling in my own electronics development company [a fortune in those days] to a person with a similar type of mind (I shall not use the correct medical terminology) sadly ended up being caught by Interpol in South Africa.
I am sure that BM in his own mind started out with good intent but as all people do, with a similar problem of the mind, it always goes wrong.
Yes, we should feel very angry but some people just cannot help the way their minds work and therefore, we should, at the same time pity him (SM was just being led by her husband).
I do not think any body has posted such a post before from two points of view.

---

Thank you for the post. Very interesting take from someone who was "there." May I make a suggestion? I think this would be an excellent post for you to make at GFF under the PIPS Discussion thread. I hope you elect to do so, or give someone here permission to post it there for you, but giving you credit of course for the post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jock Strap

When I first saw BM in Hawaii, I instantaneously knew that my $39,000 loaned had been lost and likewise the loans of all my friends that I had introduced. I 'read him' like an open book. When I eventually spoke with him, it only made me feel worse and I knew beyond all reasonable doubt that he would get into trouble. In a way I felt sorry for him..."

I do not think any body has posted such a post before from two points of view.

---

First of all, I noticed this is your first post. So I would like to say "nice to hear from you" and I hope you continue to post.

I am curious, how did you know that your loans was in danger when you saw BM in Hawaii? I am asking because he has managed to elude many people's radar/spider sense/common sense/red alert senses.

There are some out there who still believe in him and some who are already over him.

Please share your experiences in this.

Cheers!

theBat$

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paddyfield

My my JS you sure have had a run of bad luck.
I must applaud your attitude though. An impartial viewpoint rather than one based on emotion, and we have seen our fair share on this forum, does open up quite a different and wider picture.
May I ask, without any critical observation or comment, why you would invest such a large amount?. Its a great puzzle to me, since, over the course of the last 12 months or so, many have come onto this forum with almost the same, one off, large intial investment. I really would be interested in knowing why someone would risk so much in one throw with no guarantee of a return.
Please dont take offence, I mean no harm or judgement. Its the psychology behind such a committment that interests myself.
If one is married, to stray from that bond must be a similar risk all in one moment, and to damn with the consequencies. Is that the same attitude, gamble, win or lose, the same reasoning that winning, no matter what the cost, no matter what the game, is an emotional personal decision, yet losing seems to be everyone elses fault.
Not so you may say, but the proof, especially where money is concerned, lies within the pages of this very forum. Money, it seems, is top dog is most peoples minds. Make a buck and spend less, that way, you have covered tomorows expenses. Gamble a buck and hope to win a bit extra back, thats the nature of things. But to gamble a large sum in a win/lose venture has me at a loss as to the reasoning behind that kind of a gamble, unless one has convinced themselves that they cannot lose. That must be the answer :)
Cheers
paddy

---

Actually 4 things came to mind, but I would rather know what JS says in regard to why he invested such a large sum. Provided he is gracious enough to do so, since it really is none of our business.

In 2004,PIPs was paying,only 3 days for a bankwire withdrawal.Most members were singing pips praises until the rot set in,late 2005.The forum was unbelievably optimistic, even up to the closure.Remember,BM stated on July 7th 2005, that "the light was shining through" !

It is not difficult to see why people invested so much.

A "large amount of money" is a very relative thing. To some people $39,000 is 300% of their net worth. To others it may be much less than 1% of their net worth. I believe most people are trying to turn a small amount of money into a large amount of money in a short period of time. "Small", "large" and "short" are all very relative and varies between individuals. Some people get caught up with greed and go overboard on a "sure thing" only to realize they are hurt after it is too late.
BD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jock Strap

When I first saw BM in Hawaii, I instantaneously knew that my $39,000 loaned had been lost and likewise the loans of all my friends that I had introduced. I 'read him' like an open book. When I eventually spoke with him, it only made me feel worse and I knew beyond all reasonable doubt that he would get into trouble. In a way I felt sorry for him, since my first similar situation (one of many) in 1959 when I lost £36,000 Sterling in my own electronics development company [a fortune in those days] to a person with a similar type of mind (I shall not use the correct medical terminology) sadly ended up being caught by Interpol in South Africa.
I am sure that BM in his own mind started out with good intent but as all people do, with a similar problem of the mind, it always goes wrong.
Yes, we should feel very angry but some people just cannot help the way their minds work and therefore, we should, at the same time pity him (SM was just being led by her husband).
I do not think any body has posted such a post before from two points of view.

---

Welcome to the forum, JockStrap. :cheers:

Sadly, your tale is but one of thousands who lost at the hands of this man.

We are covering the trial of Bryan & Sharon via my fellow Mod, TheBat$. We have setup a fund for members to donate to (minimum of $2) to pay for his travel and hotel expenses whilst he is covering it. He has already done some sterling work on the pre-hearings.

Obviously it won't help get any money back, but should provide a first-hand account of what happened. If you want to help out with this, the thread with the details is here: http://www.rolclub.com/pips-program-...sting-b-c.html

Back then, few people would think that they were gambling their money, as we were not only led to believe that Pips was a revolution that would eventually change the world economy, but also it would not fail as it was designed by a genius who happened to have a very close relationship with the Malaysian government, anyone who would dare to say that Pips was a gamble or scam would get jumped all over in no time.

The song “We are the world” reminds me so much of Pips, but sadly, now it means a different thing to me.

( CHORUS )
We are the world, we are the children (BM once said that we were his sons and daughters)
We are the ones who make a brighter day so let's start giving (our loans)
There's a Choice we're making we're saving our own lives (to be rich, or not to be)
It's true we'll make a better day just you and me (better day for whom?)

Anyway, if BM is to be proven a sick man, then we will have to accept it.

Quote:

---

GeoSphere wrote
Back then, few people would think that they were gambling their money, as we were not only led to believe that Pips was a revolution that would eventually change the world economy, but also it would not fail as it was designed by a genius who happened to have a very close relationship with the Malaysian government, anyone who would dare to say that Pips was a gamble or scam would get jumped all over in no time.

---

So very true. Even to this day you still get jumped on, even though pips is shut down,seemingly forever.

paddy: In regard to your question as to why someone would "risk" so much money, here's why:

First, what risk? BM said on his world tour that 1. PicPay was backed by Gold in Australia; 2. The Principal was covered by Insurance; 3. The 2% compounding per day trading was GUARANTEED; and 4. It would take a global melt-down of all the financial markets for PIPS to fail. The word risk or never invest more than you can afford to lose was never uttered in public. Yes, it was in the TOS, but with all the promises and assurances PIPS was a safe investment, oops meant loan, most never read the TOS. Of course after it failed, then this clause was widely touted as why you should not have bet the farm on PIPS. Kind of like opening the barn door to put the horse back in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LynnRE

paddy: In regard to your question as to why someone would "risk" so much money, here's why:

First, what risk? BM said on his world tour that 1. PicPay was backed by Gold in Australia; 2. The Principal was covered by Insurance; 3. The 2% compounding per day trading was GUARANTEED; and 4. It would take a global melt-down of all the financial markets for PIPS to fail. The word risk or never invest more than you can afford to lose was never uttered in public. Yes, it was in the TOS, but with all the promises and assurances PIPS was a safe investment, oops meant loan, most never read the TOS. Of course after it failed, then this clause was widely touted as why you should not have bet the farm on PIPS. Kind of like opening the barn door to put the horse back in.

---

It was exactly what we (my family and I were told) anything and everything we had, put it in. The innecessant calls to my mum to convince her of the above mentioned quotes together with statement like "nothing short of the end of the world!" can stop this fella and of course we are protected by our deductions remember? We came in end of DEC 2004, my relative should have known that w/d had slowed drastically but still closed her eyes to it and "sponsored" us. Yes, sponsored. We weren't allowed to join as we are Malaysians but she sponsored us.

We didn't bet the farm but we did bet what we could. My youngest sister even contributed her meagre hard earned savings were tossed into the pot. I think for a 16yr old, RM600 (approx USD200) means a lot.

So what do I tell her? Don't invest what you cannot afford to lose? Who put the idea of her making a tidy sum so she can pay for her university fees and have left over to buy a little car to drive?

I am really looking forward to September. I will be there pen and notepad ready to comeback with the news. If indeed all is lost then we have at least the consolation of justice being served. I hope for a speedy trial and a satisfying verdict.

Until then, I will drink lots of water and keep healthy. My thanks to all you who have contributed and also for your well wishes and kind words.

theBat$ - You can bet I'll be there.

I had exactly the same feeling, just it was not when talking to BM but to Sharon. Her reaction to my thanking her just gave it all away. It seems that jockstrap was one of the few who was not blinded by future expected returns but picked up on the real underlying 'conman plays it cool' vibe.

People will try to deflect from your statement by focussing on you instead of BM, that it was all your fault in the end, yada yada yada - don't let them mislead you!

Thanks for your honest post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jock Strap

When I first saw BM in Hawaii, I instantaneously knew that my $39,000 loaned had been lost and likewise the loans of all my friends that I had introduced. I 'read him' like an open book. When I eventually spoke with him, it only made me feel worse and I knew beyond all reasonable doubt that he would get into trouble. In a way I felt sorry for him, since my first similar situation (one of many) in 1959 when I lost £36,000 Sterling in my own electronics development company [a fortune in those days] to a person with a similar type of mind (I shall not use the correct medical terminology) sadly ended up being caught by Interpol in South Africa.
I am sure that BM in his own mind started out with good intent but as all people do, with a similar problem of the mind, it always goes wrong.
Yes, we should feel very angry but some people just cannot help the way their minds work and therefore, we should, at the same time pity him (SM was just being led by her husband).
I do not think any body has posted such a post before from two points of view.

---

Hi Bat, did your relative bet everything she got on Pips? has she ever apologized to your family? I guess things wouldn't be so bad for your family if your relative had sponsored you in Pips using her own money, that way you would only lose a dream.

BM will be singing "The End Of The World" in jail if he can't explain his way out of this mess.

Take care

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebat$

It was exactly what we (my family and I were told) anything and everything we had, put it in. The innecessant calls to my mum to convince her of the above mentioned quotes together with statement like "nothing short of the end of the world!" can stop this fella and of course we are protected by our deductions remember? We came in end of DEC 2004, my relative should have known that w/d had slowed drastically but still closed her eyes to it and "sponsored" us. Yes, sponsored. We weren't allowed to join as we are Malaysians but she sponsored us.

We didn't bet the farm but we did bet what we could. My youngest sister even contributed her meagre hard earned savings were tossed into the pot. I think for a 16yr old, RM600 (approx USD200) means a lot.

So what do I tell her? Don't invest what you cannot afford to lose? Who put the idea of her making a tidy sum so she can pay for her university fees and have left over to buy a little car to drive?

I am really looking forward to September. I will be there pen and notepad ready to comeback with the news. If indeed all is lost then we have at least the consolation of justice being served. I hope for a speedy trial and a satisfying verdict.

Until then, I will drink lots of water and keep healthy. My thanks to all you who have contributed and also for your well wishes and kind words.

theBat$ - You can bet I'll be there.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeoSphere

Hi Bat, did your relative bet everything she got on Pips? has she ever apologized to your family? I guess things wouldn't be so bad for your family if your relative had sponsored you in Pips using her own money, that way you would only lose a dream.

BM will be singing "The End Of The World" in jail if he can't explain his way out of this mess.

Take care

---

She asked us to use her name as a "sponsor" NOT sponsored us with money. She had the nerve to call us stupid and used the often quoted line on us.
Can you say "Don't invest wht you cannot blah...blah.."

She had even gone to the extent of "gurantee" our investment should anything happen. But when it went down we didn't find out from her.

"Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice or in this case (BM's Cycler) shame on me."

theBaT$ - I lost my last USD10 egold to that man.

Thanks for your reply, Bat, well, I think sometimes I can't express myself very clear in English :wink:

Well, I do understand she didn't sponsor your family with any money, but what I wanted to ask was that since she asked your family to put everything on Pips, but did she do the same thing herself? well, judging from your reply, I guess she didn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeoSphere

Thanks for your reply, Bat, well, I think sometimes I can't express myself very clear in English :wink:

Well, I do understand she didn't sponsor your family with any money, but what I wanted to ask was that since she asked your family to put everything on Pips, but did she do the same thing herself? well, judging from your reply, I guess she didn't.

---

She did, she lost USD100k I think. Life savings. She also convince alot of ppl (relatives and friends) to join.

I think she is in hiding or living in fear.

theBat$

Wow! that's scary...I wonder how many similar stories have never been told in public.

I myself had a close call, as I introduced my Dad and some close friends into Pips, luckily, I insisted that they tried the minimum entry fee to test the water first, sometimes it send chill down my spine to think that if I have gotten my guard totally down and gone too overboard about it, I would have already been chopped up into pieces, minced, steamed and soysauced by now....

anyway, I have learned my lesson.

I don't believe you people believe this "Jock Strap" person.
Lynn and his friends took it hook, line and sinker.
His first post saying that he knew his money was lost. Please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dinarman

I don't believe you people believe this "Jock Strap" person.
Lynn and his friends took it hook, line and sinker.
His first post saying that he knew his money was lost. Please.

---

Let's wait for JS's answer. I also want to know how he "knew". What is your experience with BM? Please share with us.

theBat$

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dinarman

I don't believe you people believe this "Jock Strap" person.
Lynn and his friends took it hook, line and sinker.
His first post saying that he knew his money was lost. Please.

---

Mr Strapp's first post was correct.His money is lost.As a matter of fact Ken,my heart sank when BM uttered his first words on video.That did it for me.

Anyway, with a name like "Jock Strapp" he has to be taken seriously. A bit like "Barry James". :toofunny:

...my spirits raised!

Hi everyone... it is incredible for such a close relative turned eternally distant & perhaps untraceable...for all, related to thebat$'s family circles, with his share of the toll... scary and weary it shall be for a long time too!:fryingpan

I think this thread is gradually opening up anyone's hidden history and for good reasons until now...to come out and let it loose, take it off your chest and perhaps, it may help one's grave judgment and anger to lighten up and be one level upwards too in finding a relief to read others who may have a common experience that we can now easily exchange and discuss while the patient waiting goes on ... come September shall we say? Reminds me of Conny Stevens & Rock Hudson...any of you recall this movie?:biggrin:

Right, what I can share for my part isn't dramatic, thankfully too but perhaps, it may ease others a little to loosened theirs as a result of the following.

I remembered the time when we are all excited, wanting to sell our homes, after hearing what PI Inc is able to do..or so we were led to believe, and I felt, Why NOT...huh??? put one of my home up for cover as a mortgage fully left in the hands of that "scheme".

As it turned out, and as the way our Notarial and mortgage systems in the Benelux countries are designed to function strictly, it began to raise doubts and LOTS of ambiguity surrounding the method, so very easily and confidently made known and across through the Forum and by the various cheerleaders we looked up back then, with their all convincing assurances... I can now confidently look back and mused..."Jeez, they probably didn't realized how foolish and silly or ignorant, they themselves were leading others and themselves into like a herd of mules!!!"

As it turned out, there were one of 5 or so cases reporting with joy that his/her mortgage company is about to concede and hand it over while another is successfully through it and not long after, another was echoing getting "stuck" with the payback to the original mortgage company because, the PI side of BM isn't coming through with their expected commitments etc... and failed now, that was the start too of a horrific ride for that person in particular... I wondered what came about for him.... I beg nor dare imagine the consequences, for that poor chap or lady lured into it.

I had almost fallen prey to it...for I was also...pretty CLOSE to one of BM's staunchest lieutenants that had quite a ride with many...MANY with sign ups and payments in lieu with cash for PicPay money exchanged.... and they are not in the twenties or a few hundred bucks.....but several thousands a time with consistent flow of new Pipsters....talk about scary???

Those who are around my immediate vicinity sure isn't having or suffering loss of memory on this couple we all know.... but, don't PM me about their identity please, that's not the issue here and will not be revealed by me either.:bow:

Alright, my loss is almost NONE...NADA for some too but a greater loss somehow in the lending part which again, is no comparison to many more BIG Hitters that played by the tune of more than 30K to another I know of around 150K in Euros!!!:noserious

We survived somehow and we learn, hopefully with limited damage, certainly NOT for ALL...but most who are still able to Internet and to voice and/or to pursue that Utopian dream... well, we all want to see something in the end to have a fair and justified closure to this helluva ride we were once rallied into!

On the bright side, for me thus far, I'm on holiday now and partly on a Condo-buying trip since last Thursday and am now quite close to theBat$ as a matter of fact.

I wasn't planning to acquire any in where I am at this moment in Singapore but just 8 hours ago, I bought another 3-bedroom apartment, not a new one but one thats in a highly demanding location for leasing or for permanent occupancy! I heard of it in under 12 hours, had two Property Agents involved and I signed-sealed the purchase, yes..I am extremely HAPPY on this too!!!:party:

My planned trip to Thailand is still on the Agenda and it entails an almost 95% purchase of a luxurious 2-room Condo facing the Green Club as well with the latest amenities!!! The price is still terrific and there are still several available.

From one leads to another and I am offered a great proposal to act for this Developer on their many other prominent projects too in Canada... anyone in the Alberta area will know too how successful properties there are over there!!!

I'm all ears and my PM is open for any "serious" plans to invest in Real Estate and I can also say, in Singapore, this is going to be a BOOM Town for anyone looking on the purchase for leasing... it is a HUGE Market and securing now and within the next two years, will already secure you a profit before you even finalize the deal...Yes...that quick and high in demand!!!

Will be back again later... much to catch up on the local scene here before the GST hike is increased to 7% as from this Monday!!! It is one crazy hustle & bustle everywhere with almost ANYTHING going up for sales charged under the current 5% GST(Goods & Serrvices Tax) surcharge.


YB. - cheers :beer:

dinarman: Now let me see if I have this straight: By your logic because, according to you, I bought JS's story as the truth, therefore it cannot be true but you aren't saying JS is lying. HUH? By the way, who said I "bought it?" Please show me the post where I said so. Save yourself some time because you can't. Still even though I didn't say it, doesn't mean that what he said was not true. Still if I had to choose between believing JS or BM, I will pick JS every time. Already proved BM is a liar.

If the truth were known, his story is "Mild" compared to many of the stories that were told to me (not hearsay or second-hand) personally. I was told of losing their home, friends, family turning on them, being destitute, and being isolated all because they "promoted PIPS to them." Many of them did not make a dime, but because they convinced others to join, they have been ostracized by them. The horror stories I have been told are legion, versus the very few success stories of the early ones BM used to salt the program.

If you really want the true story of PIPS, JS's story is just one of the thousands like it that were the real true story of PIPS. Maybe you should read joyride's post on another forum for yet another such story. Guess they were lying too, and it was all made up. Pooh-Pooh it all you want, but it does not change the facts; but nice try.

Is that all you can come up with for a put down?
What will make you believe how people suffered and are suffering right now because they believed BM and his cheerleaders (of which you still seem to be a proud member)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dinarman

I don't believe you people believe this "Jock Strap" person.
Lynn and his friends took it hook, line and sinker.
His first post saying that he knew his money was lost. Please.

---

I will be closing this thread and a string of others as well that are rather repetitive and only leads to confusion and disarray for returning members wanting to trace or track related posts concerning the current development some call it a stupid saga, a farce and even a silly & endless waste of time, well whatever anyone feels opinionated by their individual viewpoints or argument, the Trial on the Mardsens is NOT over and far from closure hence, a main sticky thread will cater to that attention

at this link>>>:

http://www.rolclub.com/pips-program-...gnment-17.html

Any further new threads open just for the sake of an individual's ignorance to the progress surrounding the Marsdens or the Trial or anything else on PIPS or PicPay and all the parties involved will find their newly created thread deleted. Issues related to the past and further back in the past, will be posted in the above thread, click that and stay there with your submitted posts please. This is a start of some pruning and spring cleaning on the PIPS related Forum.