Where are the EXCHANGERS???!!!

When my brother in-law joined PiPs he had a co-worker who said "Hey. . .instead of dealing with the hassle of wire transfers I'll set you up a PiPs account through my PiCpAy & you can just give me the cash" So my brothe in-law along with 9 -12 other of his coworkers did that. This exchanger recieved over 50k for setting up these accounst.

My question is do these guys feel any guilt? When my brother in-law confronted this exchanger and told him "hey. . where is all that money?" He replied by saying "Sorry. . .had to help my family, but don't worry PiPs will return" My brother in-law explained that if he had sooooooo much faith in PiPs then give him back his cash and he'll sign over his account. Needless to say the exchanger didn't want to do that.

sorry for the rant...just wanted to throw out there another aspect how people here got screwed. Even by their own friends and co-workers.

-Alan

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Originally Posted by ox1216

When my brother in-law joined PiPs he had a co-worker who said "Hey. . .instead of dealing with the hassle of wire transfers I'll set you up a PiPs account through my PiCpAy & you can just give me the cash" So my brothe in-law along with 9 -12 other of his coworkers did that. This exchanger recieved over 50k for setting up these accounst.

My question is do these guys feel any guilt? When my brother in-law confronted this exchanger and told him "hey. . where is all that money?" He replied by saying "Sorry. . .had to help my family, but don't worry PiPs will return" My brother in-law explained that if he had sooooooo much faith in PiPs then give him back his cash and he'll sign over his account. Needless to say the exchanger didn't want to do that.

sorry for the rant...just wanted to throw out there another aspect how people here got screwed. Even by their own friends and co-workers.

-Alan

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Good point,

I would suspect there is legal recourse if reported to authorities, so I would be a little worried over it and I have a friend who had to refund others for threat of legal action.

Good luck to all, Mike

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Originally Posted by Offshore-Wealth.com

Good point,

I would suspect there is legal recourse if reported to authorities, so I would be a little worried over it and I have a friend who had to refund others for threat of legal action.

Good luck to all, Mike

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I just hope my brother in law can get his money back from that guy at his office.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ox1216

When my brother in-law joined PiPs he had a co-worker who said "Hey. . .instead of dealing with the hassle of wire transfers I'll set you up a PiPs account through my PiCpAy & you can just give me the cash" So my brothe in-law along with 9 -12 other of his coworkers did that. This exchanger recieved over 50k for setting up these accounst.

My question is do these guys feel any guilt? When my brother in-law confronted this exchanger and told him "hey. . where is all that money?" He replied by saying "Sorry. . .had to help my family, but don't worry PiPs will return" My brother in-law explained that if he had sooooooo much faith in PiPs then give him back his cash and he'll sign over his account. Needless to say the exchanger didn't want to do that.

sorry for the rant...just wanted to throw out there another aspect how people here got screwed. Even by their own friends and co-workers.

-Alan

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Your brother in-law paid the exchanger to have his PIPS account set up
and the exchanger had done exactly that! The exchanger would be at fault if
he took the money and not set up the PIPS account.

The exchanger may be guilty of taking money illegally i.e. without licence.

Just my opinion.

P Chin

i wonder if exchanging pips units for cash from an exchanger, in canada is legal...???

Funny... I funded through a so called exchanger too... It saved me a couple of bucks of banking fees etc. And (s)he did what (s)he had to... a win win situation at that time('s perspective)... and on my request (as P Chin rightfully points out).

Wouldn't it be interesting to have people take up their own responsability, instead of twist and shout to cover up for their own choices? Man...

Of course there will have been immoral people accepting money setting up accounts for new members in bad faith long after the payouts came to halt. But I can't imagine these being more than a tiny minority.

With all respect for the problems the current loss of your funds may have caused...
Please don't start such kind of an injust witch hunt...

Thanks & take care,
Hasse

Horsesh$t bulls*t cowsh@t.
If my hands ever get on Marsden's neck it's going to be me in that Malaysian jail and I'll have no regrets.

I just found it funny that this exhanger had/has soooooooooooooo much faith in BM, but when he was put to the test he sure did back peddle fast.

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Originally Posted by ox1216

I just found it funny that this exhanger had/has soooooooooooooo much faith in BM, but when he was put to the test he sure did back peddle fast.

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ox!

You have a lot of good points, ....and my guess is that the members that took advantage of exchangers did that to save time and money.
How naive can they possibly be if they continue to blame those exchangers that helped them to get an account!...seems to me from what I read that they invested with a gut to their head.


hine

These exchangers at least the one we dealt with in 2005 was telling us how great PIPS was in 2005, after the program already folded. We have figured out this person in Minn. exchanged about $90,000 from our group and when confronted he called us those supposed christians. It is simple, he took our hard earned cash for nothing in return. He has our cash and we have nothing but receipts and wire transfers paperwork. He certainly did not earn the 90,000+ in cash he took in. I wonder if these people have a license for trading?

Baileytwo - I would say that it is highly unlikely that any of the exchangers were licensed. Any reputable financial advisor would have runa a mile from a setup like Pips. I would suggest that you contact the authorities in Minnesota with the details - it's a long shot, but you might just be able to recover something.
Unfortunately, I'm not in touch with anyone in Minn., but Nebraska are actively pursuing such people.

“In this life, one thing counts.............................









today my triveks simulator says $464,800

Just numbers on a screen :toofunny:


Wish it were true though :sads:

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Originally Posted by balieytwo

These exchangers at least the one we dealt with in 2005 was telling us how great PIPS was in 2005, after the program already folded. We have figured out this person in Minn. exchanged about $90,000 from our group and when confronted he called us those supposed christians. It is simple, he took our hard earned cash for nothing in return. He has our cash and we have nothing but receipts and wire transfers paperwork. He certainly did not earn the 90,000+ in cash he took in. I wonder if these people have a license for trading?

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Unfortunately, unless you do your ownd due diligence you can be taken
completely, checking on the status of the program should have been
a priority for you before loaning the money technically you asked him
to set up an account for you for your money (which I am assuming he
did) if he did not set up an account than you have recourse.
Also, if he did not hae a trading license which I doubt, that also
may be another avenue for you.

WAKE UP !!!

"EXCHANGERS"????? just because "you put a name that sounds like a broker doesn't mean these people that did what you asked for are now at fault for your losses. Grow up!

You ask a friend or acquaintance to save you time and money by setting an account up so you can get in on the possible gain... and most people who did this for you did so in good faith.
If you did not investigate before you invested don't blame the ones who helped you get into pips.
Grow up and be responsible.
I had people ask me if I would guarantee their profit and I said no... I have no guarantee on my investments. They were so anxious to get in they did and I had some offered to invest 10-20 thousand more after they already had 10-20K in an account and after a long delay in withdrawals I was saying wait for bank set up in Cambodia. These people are responsible and know that I had nothing to do with stopping pips and know it was their decision to lend money to pips... and say (and rightfully so) that's what investments are, "RISKS FOR potential GAIN".

Just because "you" made a bad choice (in your mind) "you" are responsible and you chose the action so quit acting like spoiled children and blaming others for "your" choice.

I was investigated in Canada while pips was still on line and the "fraud squad" investigator acting for a new pips member told me, all looked fine on line and were not interested in my actions. He added just do my own investing and don't invite others and I said I didn't invite them they asked me what I was involved in and I told them and they went on line to check it out and to save a few percent, on transactions, asked me to use my picpay funds to save them time and money so I did on their request. He said oh... that is not the story the lender gave but he believes me and there is nothing illegal about this activity but to save myself grief from "immature investors" I should tell them to do it on their own.

I even told people after that about these events and they still whine as if it was me holding a gun to their head.

best to all pipsters and this will all be fine on return of new pips! :)

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Originally Posted by pips believer

WAKE UP !!!

"EXCHANGERS"????? just because "you put a name that sounds like a broker doesn't mean these people that did what you asked for are now at fault for your losses. Grow up!

You ask a friend or acquaintance to save you time and money by setting an account up so you can get in on the possible gain... and most people who did this for you did so in good faith.
If you did not investigate before you invested don't blame the ones who helped you get into pips.
Grow up and be responsible.
I had people ask me if I would guarantee their profit and I said no... I have no guarantee on my investments. They were so anxious to get in they did and I had some offered to invest 10-20 thousand more after they already had 10-20K in an account and after a long delay in withdrawals I was saying wait for bank set up in Cambodia. These people are responsible and know that I had nothing to do with stopping pips and know it was their decision to lend money to pips... and say (and rightfully so) that's what investments are, "RISKS FOR potential GAIN".

Just because "you" made a bad choice (in your mind) "you" are responsible and you chose the action so quit acting like spoiled children and blaming others for "your" choice.

I was investigated in Canada while pips was still on line and the "fraud squad" investigator acting for a new pips member told me, all looked fine on line and were not interested in my actions. He added just do my own investing and don't invite others and I said I didn't invite them they asked me what I was involved in and I told them and they went on line to check it out and to save a few percent, on transactions, asked me to use my picpay funds to save them time and money so I did on their request. He said oh... that is not the story the lender gave but he believes me and there is nothing illegal about this activity but to save myself grief from "immature investors" I should tell them to do it on their own.

I even told people after that about these events and they still whine as if it was me holding a gun to their head.

best to all pipsters and this will all be fine on return of new pips! :)

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Russ. . . . Let me ask you a question, & just for the record I'm NOT trying to start anything! Since you did make money from PiPs by exchanging money for folks do you feel a shred of guilt?? I know I would. I'm just trying to get a honest prospective from an exchanger. Your post seemed deffensive thats why I asked.


-Alan

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I was investigated in Canada while pips was still on line and the "fraud squad" investigator acting for a new pips member told me, all looked fine on line and were not interested in my actions. He added just do my own investing and don't invite others and I said I didn't invite them they asked me what I was involved in and I told them and they went on line to check it out and to save a few percent, on transactions, asked me to use my picpay funds to save them time and money so I did on their request.

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This sounds a little strange to me. You were investigated but they didn't even check to see if PIPs was licensed?

And he said

Quote:

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He said oh... that is not the story the lender gave but he believes me and there is nothing illegal about this activity but to save myself grief from "immature investors" I should tell them to do it on their own.

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and he said he "believes you". Doesn't sound like an investigator to me. IMO investing on behalf of someone else IS promoting and in Canada that is illegal.

to ox1216 I did an exchange for a man / friend who has worked for me on a few occassions . I tried to get him to wait until Pips started paying again etc. He had gone to Gary Westoby (the original "jolly pipster" )& talked to him about things & decided to go ahead . He didn't have a credit card he could use & didn't want to send a money order or wire transfer . so I finally agreed to take out of my account & open one for him . I opened my account with min. & recieved that plus an extra $50 back from him to open it . If I had the extra $ & he wanted something back I would try to give it back to him . but he has told me a few months ago not to worry about anything . If you figured out the credit card charges I originally paid I was still a few $ short of breaking even but It was a learning experience for me & my friend .

Quote:
"the "fraud squad" investigator acting for a new pips member told me, all looked fine on line"
I hope he's not still an investigator if he thought it looked fine on line!

Sounds like absolutely no remorse from the exchanger. He got into a fraudulent scheme, then offered to get others in for cash.....guilty. Pay it back if you have any character.
Scenario:MoneyDuck gets in for $450. Then, when things slow down, he decides to try to get some money out of the deal, by transferring his fake money into a new account, with a 10% commission for someone. Then when someone would like their moneyback, because he profitted from a fraudulent program, he refuses.
I agree, my decision to get into PIPS was a mistake, but why should I, and not moneyduck pay the price. He made money on this fraud.
I will now check with my state to hunt down the moneyduck. Remember, I tried to do this the easy way sir.

Well, I've got a scenario for you....the week before KUM tanked, I wrote a friend a check for $5000.00 to fund my e-bullion account the same amount. I then used My e-bullion, which I purchaed fair and square, to buy a position in KUM. A week later it tanked. I had done as much DD on KUM as could be done, and I bare no ill will to my friend, and I told him, it was my decision. Now the only difference in the situation, is that e-bullion is still around and picpay is not. Even if I was enough of a child to try to point the finger at this guy, which I am not, by all accounts, at the end of the day, I have to be willing to take responsibility for my decisions. That's what this is all about. If the people that are crying and whining about "exchangers" had purchased their picpay conventionally, then who the hell would they have to point their immature fingers at in order to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions and own decisions. Whether they bought picpay from picpay or from an "exchanger" or a friend, no one did so with a gun to their heads, and everyone did so with the same dd information available (whether or not they read it), and if everyone had taken responsibility for making an adult financial decision and done their own DD, they would have seen the disclaimers stating that, like with any investment opportunity, there is an element of risk. Exchangers weren't brokering pips accounts, they were selling ecurrency and charging a fee for that service. It's time for the finger pointers to stop whining, and stop trying to dodge responsibility for making their own financial decisions, and as my wife is so fond of saying, "put on your big girl panties" and get on with your lives, having learned from YOUR mistake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dapper Dan

Well, I've got a scenario for you....the week before KUM tanked, I wrote a friend a check for $5000.00 to fund my e-bullion account the same amount. I then used My e-bullion, which I purchaed fair and square, to buy a position in KUM. A week later it tanked. I had done as much DD on KUM as could be done, and I bare no ill will to my friend, and I told him, it was my decision. Now the only difference in the situation, is that e-bullion is still around and picpay is not. Even if I was enough of a child to try to point the finger at this guy, which I am not, by all accounts, at the end of the day, I have to be willing to take responsibility for my decisions. That's what this is all about. If the people that are crying and whining about "exchangers" had purchased their picpay conventionally, then who the hell would they have to point their immature fingers at in order to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions and own decisions. Whether they bought picpay from picpay or from an "exchanger" or a friend, no one did so with a gun to their heads, and everyone did so with the same dd information available (whether or not they read it), and if everyone had taken responsibility for making an adult financial decision and done their own DD, they would have seen the disclaimers stating that, like with any investment opportunity, there is an element of risk. Exchangers weren't brokering pips accounts, they were selling ecurrency and charging a fee for that service. It's time for the finger pointers to stop whining, and stop trying to dodge responsibility for making their own financial decisions, and as my wife is so fond of saying, "put on your big girl panties" and get on with your lives, having learned from YOUR mistake.

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Good point,

The issue is grey to say the least since we were all kept in the dark for months leading up to shut down of PIPS for fraud, so the only time I would feel a person could be held responsible is if he or she knew PIPS was a fraud, and then did the exchange. This was not the case in your scenario, nor the PIPS scenario, so the responsibilty stays with us who made ultimate decision to take a chance.

For that matter, it could work both ways. I purchased dozens of accounts for those who were desperate for cash and not able to get any withdrawals, so do I blame them for bailing out and selling their accounts? Of course not, they didn't know it was a doomed scam at that point, they just needed cash now, so it all comes down to knowledge, and no one had absolute knowledge until 101 charges were filed and Marsden's were thrown into jail.

Good luck to all, Mike

From my perspective since I capped it and hung that hat after realising, there is MORE to it than meets the eye when events started capitulating to his disadvantage!

Whatever "most" have done from the pre-conceived assumption on BM's genuine vision that is openly supported by his plans and manouvres, we were ALL drawn to that belief...which he remarkably swoop & cashed in on this weakness as we usually are being humans, to GO FOR IT with good faith and blinded trust!!!

His longterm strategy was already "up in his head" even if it took a good solid 18 months to pull through effectively, as his anticipated scheme may have require before the tide turns into a squall of misery for most affected, he would have long be gone or safely secured with enough stashed in equities that local authorities could not legally claim (but he WAS wrong on that fortunately) to simply disregard ALL those who "FELL FOR IT" and he could be somewhere else with a new face and a new haircut and a set of dentures to outsmart Ronald Biggs with his heist of that Great Train Robbery! Biggs wasn't smart anyway to do or go that far but Bryan thought he could just do it, worth a chance to see if POT LUCK still prevails!:fryingpan

However, he didn't play or knew well enough the kind of cards his deck held, were also accessible by many that had boars to row back to safety and recap the damage and to stop him in his tracks before more was lost to his scheme.

It BACKFIRED.... simply put! Even with some handsome and modest payouts succeeding in gaining the trust & hearts from the small corner of cheerleaders that they felt WERE cool and ALRIGHT to stick it out and show allegiance...

That should be a determining factor to snarl at the rest and puke us with his defiance to carry on...whatever it takes...there rose the HA Lotto as a result...what a gamble he thought worth taking that could make minds recourse and sway back to his strategy...all over again!

It was for many, the last remaining straw their "cookie jar" could afford and to be hollered down by his indignation regarding repeated postings for a decent response... he blew his sooted vent and there was no turning back since and cycle he did.... and for those that fully knew of Barry's true identity and went along despite and further tried lobbying us ALL innocent trusting members to his scheme....

I would support the call to go after them too, when that time arrives, those maggots that the courts would seek as well albeit a fine or some claim to their assets... for they were just as GUILTY to his longterm strategy....without question.

There are several women and men involved but I leave that to your discretion to decide if they should be implicated too esp. when they were going about in their trails of spamming through PMs of RC members just to get the numbers UP for their own personal downliners in the 10by5 Cycler...

It was NOT a popular move I have to decide and had to carry out to stop any further, by the popular participation of our members within ROLClub... it just had to be done when it was realised, we are about to be conned AGAIN!


YB. - Cheers to all reflecting painful times back then...:bow:

This is an interesting thread but unfortunately there are so many different scenarios being discussed at once and so it is a little difficult to see which side of the fence (pardon the pun) people are sitting.

Firstly there was the case of someone who helped a friend to join by using his own picpay. As the friend had made a decision that he wanted to join at that point in time then he should take responsibility for his own mistake and not blame his friend who only carried out what was asked of him.

If on the other hand someone actively recruited a new member knowing or strongly suspecting that the writing was on the wall and Pips would not recover then I would say that there is a moral obligation to refund that person unless some effort was made to inform about the risk and disclose that W/Ds were delayed. The question of timing (on which any legal case would hang) could vary from the day that the W/Ds became delayed to about the Hawaiian Convention or even a month or two afterwards according to opinion and I do remember visiting Nilai in July a day or two before Gary and Warren left and being solemnly assured by a Picpay staffer that my W/D would be sent next week! (I had not even asked her about it so this information was volunteered!)

The saddest part of all this is that those shouting loudest for a refund will probably never get a recommendation again as they will be mentally filed away as "trouble" by their friends who will never risk offering anything again however "cast iron" the opportunity may appear to be!

The other matter is that we all have a different comfort zone when it comes to risk assessment. Some look at risk to return ratios and take on a few programmes on the basis that if only one out of three or four succeeds they will still be ahead of the Building Society savers rate. These characters have the mindset to walk away from a loss and never give it another thought.

I suspect however that what happened with Pips was that the ones who were in early and enjoying the new cars and motorhomes etc were noticed by some friends who wanted to know what was behind this overt change in their fortune.

Having seen the friends toys and having become just a tad envious (perhaps even to the point of saying "well thanks a bunch pal, you might have told me earlier") Mr "Low-Risk Threshold" might have abandoned his customary caution and begged his friend to let him in.

Later on, having now lost his money is our "Mr Low Risk Threshold" going to suffer selective memory loss and try to blame his friend?

The nanny state, and the litiginous society seems to be spawning a generation of people who never have to take responsibility. Someone else must always be to blame.

Taken to its logical conclusion this would mean that no-one will even recommend a car that has given good service, or a restaurant, or a doctor, or a TV or even a book on the basis that some form of consequential loss may result and court action follow.

So I suppose people should get used to owning up to their own cock-ups.

Unless of course they want to spend the rest of their lives wondering where all their friends went?

Just a couple of bobs worth as usual:)

Michael

I will be closing this thread and a string of others as well that are rather repetitive and only leads to confusion and disarray for returning members wanting to trace or track related posts concerning the current development some call it a stupid saga, a farce and even a silly & endless waste of time, well whatever anyone feels opinionated by their individual viewpoints or argument, the Trial on the Marsdens is NOT over and far from closure hence, a main sticky thread will cater to that attention

at this link>>>:

http://www.rolclub.com/pips-program-...gnment-17.html

Any further new threads open just for the sake of an individual's ignorance to the progress surrounding the Marsdens or the Trial or anything else on PIPS or PicPay and all the parties involved will find their newly created thread deleted. Issues related to the past and further back in the past, will be posted in the above thread, click that and stay there with your submitted posts please. This is a start of some pruning and spring cleaning on the PIPS related Forum.