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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericanEagle1 View Post
    Roy Lamb Here...

    goankar, That is a very good point - do you, or would any one in this forum have the original PIPsINC sign up agreement - and post it in this forum - I think I have a copy somewhere...
    The disclaimer on the website probably means you wont get any refunds from pips.

    PICPAY is another matter entirely.Backed by gold,remember? Money in Picay was already earned, good as cash.So not at risk!

    I wish

  2. #12
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    Hmm,

    Many seem to claim they were unfairly "scammed" out of their money by BM, arguing -- and here hoping -- that they should be entitled to their money back (if there is any), while others say, no, people knew the risks when they entered the program, which they liken to gambling, and so nothing is owed, it was simply "lost."

    But to me it seems self evident that, in most places at least, since it is ILLEGAL to PARTICIPATE in ponzi schemes, therefore all the money obtained by BM and his lieutenants constitutes "funds obtained through illegal means."

    The Malaysian authorities are embarked on a course to make "an example" out of Bryan Marsden -- that seems to be clear and others have pointed this out -- by bringing him down via the easiest means, through money laundering charges, kinda like the US took down Al Capone on income tax evasion.

    IMHO (as I have no way of knowing, but I do suspect that) it is a distinct POSSIBILITY they ALSO may be out to make "examples" of the participants of PIPS and will have no compassion whatsoever for them as the "victims" they make themselves out to be.

    Sorry, but that's what I think.

  3. #13
    Moderator Moderator thebat$'s Avatar
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    Talking Backed in gold? Yeah, right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    PICPAY is another matter entirely.Backed by gold,remember? Money in Picay was already earned, good as cash.So not at risk!
    I wish
    You're right there, gold yes.... but was it just fool's gold? I am just wishing for my capital back.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulSurfer View Post
    Hmm,

    Many seem to claim they were unfairly "scammed" out of their money by BM, arguing -- and here hoping -- that they should be entitled to their money back (if there is any), while others say, no, people knew the risks when they entered the program, which they liken to gambling, and so nothing is owed, it was simply "lost."

    But to me it seems self evident that, in most places at least, since it is ILLEGAL to PARTICIPATE in ponzi schemes, therefore all the money obtained by BM and his lieutenants constitutes "funds obtained through illegal means."

    The Malaysian authorities are embarked on a course to make "an example" out of Bryan Marsden -- that seems to be clear and others have pointed this out -- by bringing him down via the easiest means, through money laundering charges, kinda like the US took down Al Capone on income tax evasion.

    IMHO (as I have no way of knowing, but I do suspect that) it is a distinct POSSIBILITY they ALSO may be out to make "examples" of the participants of PIPS and will have no compassion whatsoever for them as the "victims" they make themselves out to be.

    Sorry, but that's what I think.
    The Malaysian Authorities does not need BM to be an example, throughout our history there have been scams like this. I remember the commodities trading scam and when I was younger "Pak Man Telo" scam but none as big as this. So Malaysians have been adviced and warned not to participate. We have bilboards and ad campaigns depicting the ills of get rich quick schemes.

    Make an example of the "victims", I hope not. I don't know about the rest of the investors but be were led to believe that quote "nothing short of the end of the world would stop PIPs" by our relatives overseas. We knew nothing of this world (Hyips) until then. We said "NO" but gave in after a year of cajoling.

    Yes, we knew that there would be a certain amount of risk.

    But then again, we were also told that PIPS have a % carried deducted as a contigency plan, to allay our fears. Right, another of the false promises. I don't think I agree that PIPS was gambling. If I go into a casino, play then lose. It would be my fault. But I was led to believe that PIPs was solid, SI was solid... he he he..

    So to punish us and others like us would be rubbing salt to and already open and bleeding wound.

    Hope BN can help us all.

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  4. #14
    Investor Owen Platt's Avatar
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    Now please regard this as purely my opinion, but it is based on a knowledge of the inner workings of Central Banks (although not of Bank Negara). It is unlikely that the bank will wish to make an example by pursuing individuals who participated in Pips. It is just not their business and in any event they really don't have the resources to do so even if they wished.
    For residents of the United States however, the situation may be a little more difficult. The authorities there have exhibited a messianic enthusiasm for going after the relatively minor financial indiscretions of their citizens and I have already received enquiries to see if I have the Pips members list (I don't). Undoubtedly they will be able to obtain this from the Malaysian authorities in the long term.
    I doubt whether the other jurisdictions involved will bother unless they receive specific complaints.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Platt View Post
    Now please regard this as purely my opinion, but it is based on a knowledge of the inner workings of Central Banks (although not of Bank Negara). It is unlikely that the bank will wish to make an example by pursuing individuals who participated in Pips. It is just not their business and in any event they really don't have the resources to do so even if they wished.
    For residents of the United States however, the situation may be a little more difficult. The authorities there have exhibited a messianic enthusiasm for going after the relatively minor financial indiscretions of their citizens and I have already received enquiries to see if I have the Pips members list (I don't). Undoubtedly they will be able to obtain this from the Malaysian authorities in the long term.
    I doubt whether the other jurisdictions involved will bother unless they receive specific complaints.
    Good point,

    It would be useless to go after investors unless they were major players and/or took a significant withdrawal, but there were few of these judging from posts over the past couple years. In most cases it was probably BS if someone said they earned thousands, so I doubt they will bother looking at investors.

    On the other hand, in case of 12DP the receive is going after those who made the big bucks in this scam. It was obviously a Phantom Pyramid Ponzi, and since it took in far more than PIPS ever did, I suspect there will be some interesting knocks on people doors who got in early and cashed out big. With $500,000,000.00 taken in by 12DP, the receiver is in seventh heaven. (g)

    He took his cool million off the top in the name of investigative and accounting costs, and seeing that so much was earned by investors, he will spend all the time in the world going after every dime he can as it adds to his coffers. That is how the U.S. injustice system works, the scammers ripping of the scammers, as no one can complain when they are flat broke and flat on their backs. Sure will be interesting to watch both these cases unfold, but I doubt anyone will get more than a thin dime back from either once all is said and done.

    Good luck to all, Mike

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    Owen, Mike, et al: I apologize because I incorrectly overstated my point: I, too, do not believe the BNM will "go after" individuals; when I said they will make an example of them (a poor choice of words) what I meant to say is simply that they will not have sympathy for the investors/players and won't make an effort to refund money; also failed to say: I hope I am wrong about this. Also agree that big players could be pursued, perhaps in other jurisdictions, but may be hard case to prove.

  7. #17
    Investor Owen Platt's Avatar
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    Understand, SoulSurfer. In fact I don't think the so-called members have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to claiming refunds anyway. I don't think the bank will feel themselves obligated to perform the duties of a receiver and probably think that caveat emptor rules the day. Not that there will be much to argue over anyway!

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    We don't know for sure yet if PIPS was a Ponzi, what we know from Malaysian
    media so far is that PIPS was not autorized by NB to collect deposits.

    And if it surfaces that it was a Ponzi, than the punishment should be on Bryan, not on the scammed members.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulSurfer View Post
    Hmm,

    Many seem to claim they were unfairly "scammed" out of their money by BM, arguing -- and here hoping -- that they should be entitled to their money back (if there is any), while others say, no, people knew the risks when they entered the program, which they liken to gambling, and so nothing is owed, it was simply "lost."

    But to me it seems self evident that, in most places at least, since it is ILLEGAL to PARTICIPATE in ponzi schemes, therefore all the money obtained by BM and his lieutenants constitutes "funds obtained through illegal means."

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    Quote Originally Posted by way2go View Post
    We don't know for sure yet if PIPS was a Ponzi, what we know from Malaysian
    media so far is that PIPS was not autorized by NB to collect deposits.

    And if it surfaces that it was a Ponzi, than the punishment should be on Bryan, not on the scammed members.
    Don't include me in your "we." To me, PIPS is and always has been a ponzi, from the first day I heard the phony-balony, conspiracy-shrouded too-good-to-be-true sales pitch. Each and every day since then, it has continued to reinforce that impression. The recent charges and jailing were completely anticipated long ago by many and were no surprise, as will be the rest of the sorry saga.

    Excuse me, "if it surfaces?" Man, it's a beached whale! Those who still don't think so are extremely naive or fooling themselves, IMHO.

    I am not calling for participants to be punished; not getting their money back is punishment enough. And furthermore, not all the members were "scammed" -- many were aware and willing players in the "get in while it's still good (wink-wink)" program.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoulSurfer View Post
    Don't include me in your "we." To me, PIPS is and always has been a ponzi...
    Excuse me, "if it surfaces?" Man, it's a beached whale! Those who still don't think so are extremely naive or fooling themselves, IMHO.
    Soulsurfer,

    "We" was a figure of speach, does not implied that it includes everybody.

    I don't say that PIPS was not a Ponzi, but that I don't know that for sure. It may end up that it was a Ponzi.

    So far, the observation of the facts lead me to believe that PIPS was not born as a Ponzi, but it was lead to destruction because of incompetence, missmanagement, megalomania and tendency to take shortcuts by bypassing the law.

    I don't think that because of having these convictions I am more naive or think less that the ones who believe that PIPS was born a Ponzi.

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