'the truth shall set you free.' Jn 8:32

**bishopnizmo** · 18-11-2005, 11:20 PM

amen , we trust in God not in pips

**kevo** · 19-11-2005, 03:22 AM

actually irydany it does belong here. Read the thread title.

Originally Posted by irydany

This is all fine but it does not belong here. Go preach it on the mountain.
irydany

**kevo** · 19-11-2005, 03:33 AM

Outstanding post Manoo. Excellent illustration, excellent point.

Originally Posted by manoo

Two men are seated in a plane. The first is given a parachute and told to put is on as it would improve his flight. He’s a little skeptical at first because he can’t see how wearing a parachute in a plane could possibly improve
the flight. After a time he decides to experiment and see if the claim is true. As he puts it on he notices the weight of it upon his shoulders and he finds that he has difficulty in sitting upright. However, he consoles himself with the fact that he was told the parachute would improve the flight. So, he decides to give the thing a little time. As he waits he notices that some of the other passengers are laughing at him, because he’s wearing a parachute in a plane. He begins to feel somewhat humiliated. As they begin to point and laugh at him and he can stand it no longer, he slinks in his seat, unstraps the parachute, and throws it to the floor. Disillusionment and bitterness fill his heart, because, as far as he was concerned, he was told an outright lie.
The second man is given a parachute, but listen to what he’s told. He’s told to put it on because at any moment he’d be jumping 25,000 feet out of the plane. He gratefully puts the parachute on; he doesn’t notice the
weight of it upon his shoulders, nor that he can’t sit upright. His mind is consumed with the thought of what would happen to him if he jumped without that parachute. Let’s analyze the motive and the result of each passenger’s experience. The first man’s motive for putting the parachute on was solely to improve his flight. The result of his experience was that he was humiliated by the passengers; he was disillusioned and somewhat embittered against those who gave him the parachute. As far as he’s concerned it’ll be a long time before anyone gets one of those things on his back again. The second man put the parachute on solely to escape the jump to come, and because of his knowledge of what would happen to him
without it, he has a deep-rooted joy and peace in his heart knowing that he’s saved from sure death. This knowledge gives him the ability to withstand the mockery of the other passengers. His attitude towards those who
gave him the parachute is one of heart-felt gratitude. Now listen to what the modern gospel says. It says, “Put on the Lord Jesus Christ. He’ll give you love, joy,peace, fulfillment, and lasting happiness.” In other words, “Jesus will improve your flight.” So the sinner responds, and in an experimental fashion, puts on the Savior to see if the claims are true. And what does he get? The
promised temptation, tribulation, and persecution. The other passengers mock him. So what does he do? He takes off the Lord Jesus Christ, he’s offended for the word’s sake (Mark 4:17), he’s disillusioned and somewhat
embittered, and quite rightly so. He was promised peace, joy, love, fulfillment, and lasting happiness, and all he got were trials and humiliation. His bitterness is directed toward those who gave him the so-called “good news”. His latter end becomes worse than the first: another inoculated and bitter backslider.
Saints, instead of preaching that Jesus improves the flight, we should be warning the passengers they’re going have to jump out of the plane. That it’s “appointed unto man once to die, but after this the judgment” (Heb.9:27). And when a sinner understands the horrific consequences of breaking God’s law, then he will flee to the Savior solely to escape the wrath that’s to come. And if we’re true and faithful witnesses, that’s what we’ll be preaching. That there is wrath to come; that God “commands all men everywhere to repent” (Acts 17:30). Why? “Because He has appointed a day, in which He will judge the world in righteousness” (vs. 31). You see, the issue isn’t one of happiness, but one of righteousness. It doesn’t matter how happy a sinner is, how much he’s enjoying “the pleasures of sin for a season” (Heb. 11:25). Without the righteousness of Christ, he’ll perish on the day of wrath. “Riches profit not on the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death” (Prov. 11:4). Peace and joy are legitimate fruits of salvation, but it’s not legitimate to use these fruits as a draw card for salvation. If we continue to do so, sinners will respond with an impure motive lacking repentance.

Kimlyn, no doubt you got burnt by "christians". They are not the ones who will save you at judgment. I've been a "Christian" for 25 years, but it's only been this last year since I've had a relationship with our creator, and has blown me away. Alot of churches are dead and do things that give God a bad name.
All I know is that Jesus didn't just die for me, He died for you too.

**denim** · 19-11-2005, 08:31 AM

This is truly a great community. There have been some wonderful posts. Thank you Kevo for what you said, I don't think I am worthy of it. It was unexpected.

Manoo, that is truly excellent, a great picture.

With reference to having a gripe with God.

Mankind in general tends to find excuses for anything under the sun, from the trivial to the serious. It can range from something small, like something they don't want to do, like wearing a seat belt in a car, and the reason is because its uncomfortable. (its not uncomfortable, the truth is you just don't want to wear it). To dismissing God because of something the preacher said, or a life experience. When all you want to do is dismiss God, the preacher or the experience just gave the excuse. Life is cruel, if there is an all loving God he wouldn't have dumped us in this hell hole we have to call life. Are all are excuses.

I know someone, who has every reason to turn his back on God. He went to church; had an excellent career; a good house; when things went wrong they got better again and were resolved; he had a reasonably good lifestyle but he married in ignorance, after a time he wanted to live a Christian life sincerely, and hoped that one day by his example his wife would become a Christian.

The man was very vulnerable. Despite trying hard, instead of a loving relationship the marriage became one of convenience. His wife attacked him with a knife to try and make him renounce his faith, and make him say that he loved her more than he loved God. She had no concept that they were two different types of love. After time the marriage dried up and it was just two people living under the same roof; the man had concerns about his safety in her company and "learned" insomnia to stay awake as long as possible. The man withdrew into himself and back slided in his walk with God, and his eyes wandered and found another woman. Yet the circumstance never happened for him to complete his desire. It was his feeling that God was protecting him from making a fatal mistake, in much the same way God protected Job with a hedge of protection, and this frustrated the man. In frustration the man cried out to God "Take away this bloody hedge." As soon as he said that, a feeling of contentment and peace came over him, quite indescribable, he had never had that feeling before it felt beautiful, it was like his eyes had been opened. And the very next day he got what he wanted.

Since then the man has never felt at peace in his heart. He has felt that he is justifiably living with the consequences of his sin. He was a music director at a church that he loved, but he got sacked with no apparent reason. He couldn't continue in his marriage and so left; He found someone in another country and gave up his job and his home for them to go and be with them; thereby forfeiting his career; also by being the one to leave his marriage he had willing bestowed his wife with virtually everything he had accumulated including the nearly paid for house; He went into what seemed like the perfect relationship; they were both happy and the love, care and respect they had for each other was the envy of everyone they met; then one day she left him, just like that - out of the blue - it was a massive shock to him; the act of her leaving him left him homeless and penniless; poorer than when he was a teenager; he now rents a small three room flat and is struggling from one week to the next; he has major depression that has robbed him of some of the activities he liked to do; and is under the doctor and a counselor; In effect he has lost all that he ever had, and has to start life over again from scratch.

He knows that he has done wrong in the eyes of God; he has asked forgiveness; he has asked for the hedge of protection back; but he has not felt that it has returned. He knows that he offended God big time, He does not blame God for his condition; of course he wishes his condition was better; but like Job, he will not look for an "alternative" way or curse God. (Though I think he has got pretty close to it). God is all powerful, all knowing and sees the heart of man.

The condition of the man is not God's fault. The man is not angry with God. He believes that God has not finished teaching him his lesson. He will not turn his back on God, he knows he offended God and in his depression awaits the great and terrible day of the Lord. There is now no-one in his life, and that void is eating him inside; he believes that no-one could ever want him, he has nothing to offer anyone, after all he is in small rented accommodation; he has no security; has lost all his wealth and therefore nothing to offer that anyone could possibly want. He can't even make his place look like a home for it to look nice when someone comes. He is stuck in a foreign country on his own and no family. And just like to Nebuchadnezzar, God has shown him his place.

That person could justifiable turn his back on God, he has all the excuses he needs. He could have used a different way of setting an example to his wife because life is full of choices. But he knows, just as Jesus said, that without God he wouldn't draw his next breath if the Father didn't will it. Without God he is nothing. He knows the temptations for the easy route without God. He knows that he is in his predicament because he made himself out of line with God. God never gets out of line with people, people do it all by themselves. It is up to him to get back into line and that is what he is doing. When you get out of line as the man in my example did, they are in effect saying. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." But God will not give his throne to another; "Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

If life sucks, it a major cop out to blame God. There is nothing wrong in having a gripe with God. You only need to look at some of the good people in the Bible, who argued their case with God and won. I don't believe it to be OK however to have a gripe and reject him because of the gripe. That is similar to being like a spoiled brat.

The "someone" above is supportive of telling the story given, that is in case there is objection.

**BigDog** · 19-11-2005, 08:35 PM

A Thought or Two...
by Scott Stratten

People throughout time have been searching for the meaning of life.

It makes no sense to search for something that lives in us. Millions of dollars a year are spent on methods of trying to help people feel better about themselves and the world.

If you want to feel better, act better. Ranting and raving about how society is terrible and no one respects each other anymore, and then giving someone the finger when they annoy you doesn’t make too much sense.

If you want to feel “nice”, act that way. If you think being nice is a sign of weakness, you need to have your head checked.

Look at the people in your life and enrich their lives. Everyday, pick someone that you know (or even someone you don’t)) and help them. It can be helping them by telling them they look good, or they make you feel good, or paying someone’s bus fare when they are short. Life is too short not to. Don’t just smile while you’re reading this and say “Yeah, that would be a nice thing to do” and move on, do it! Right now, think of something you can do. Stop reading this and think. Now do it. If you have a partner in life, and you love them, tell them right now. Turn to them, call them, but make sure they know right now. Once you’ve done that, tell them every time you think it. Think your other looks good, tell them. Don’t think positive things anymore, say them. It’s not enough to think it, make someone know it. Think your Mom/Dad did a good job raising you? Call them and tell them. Right now. If you have kids of your own, and you think, “Wow, I remember when this happened to me, Mom was right” call Mom and tell her she was right. Call her right now. Or send a card to say thanks. Don’t wait for that special occasion to send someone flowers or a note, do it now.

You have a choice, you can either look back at your life and say “I should have” or you can change now and then look back and say “I did”. If you search life looking for a solution to society’s problems, look in the mirror. You are both the problem and the solution. If you have hidden agenda’s, bad attitudes, self-serving motives, please move as far away as possible from me, the world does not need more people like you. If you hate someone because of their race/sexual preference etc, please move even farther away from my family and me. People say society is doomed, and the world is too negative. It will be if you believe it.

Want people to stop cutting you off on the road? Stop cutting others off. Let a car in “your lane”. Maybe you hate people who gun it at the sight of a yellow light. Here’s a suggestion, next time you think of doing it, don’t. The problem is that most people are the people they hate. A person who hates prejudices, but thinks that athletes are dumb, is just as bad as the person that thinks someone is less superior than them because of their background. Think someone is less a person than you? You’ve just made yourself the one who is less.

I’m not going to tell you to “Pass this on to 5 people, or your luck will turn” or that this chain letter has been in circulation for 535 years, or it was read at a recent commencement so dance like no one is watching, I just hope you pass this on to anyone that you think could use this perspective.

It’s your life, so work it.

http://www.scottstratten.com/a_thought.php

--
Improve Your Rear End Now!

http://weallwin.net/

**kimlyn** · 19-11-2005, 11:23 PM

Hi BIGDOG Scott;

Couldn't be better said.

As someone once told me If you want to see why a person is the way they are, or want to understand want they are really saying, then look at the reverse, as if in a mirror. In other words people are often the very thing they accuse others of. What they accuse another of they are saying about themselves. THE WORLD AROUND US IS A REFELECTION OF OURSELVES. Internalization of our perspectives is only a part of the issue; but for many this is unrealistic and hard to do. You start by changing your own behaviour. "The buck starts with you" - as the individual.

Regards
Kimlyn

**misterdeedub** · 22-11-2005, 06:43 PM