Thread: Massive anti-war demonstrations Sep 24-26 - Impeach Bush!

Holy crap!! Is this for real??

Sorry to tell you that you really have no clue at all what is happening behind the curtains of politics. What write here reads like a transcript from CNN or FOX News, this really says enough... You are so fascinated and manipulated by your government that you are even not willing to consider anything else. A typical - stuck your head in the sand - authority syndrome, never question or criticize any authorities; starting from the parents, school teachers, college profs, preachers, doctors up to governments and large corporations who only want your very best. (energy co's, pharma cartels etc.) You gave up critical thinking and with it you gave all your responsibilities away to a few others. Did you know that democracy means that the folk controls the powers to be? But how is it really? Approx. 600 people control 280 millions! Do you realize that? Likely not. This situation is not only in the US but worldwide. BUT USA is the one which wants to control the world and dictates ALL countries worldwide what to do in ALL matters. If it were Russia or an other country then of course they were to blame. You mix something up here, buddy, deliberately or not, but I never ever said something against American People but against the US Government. These are two different pair of shoes, so don't twist my words or try to tell I hate US people which definitely is not true. Your country is wonderful, many beautiful places with wonderful people, what is not wonderful is YOUR government (and the people behind them) which counts up on one or two handful of people.

About historical events I won't go into a rebuttal here as everything what you described is totally biased or falsified. I'll pick up only two of your examples here, Bosnia was NEVER ever a dictatorship! I really don't know where you got this from, even in the mass media I never heard such claims, this is surely a US fabricated fairytale. (like many others) I can tell this as I'm coming from Croatia which like Bosnia was a part of former Yugoslavia and NONE of those both countries was ever a dictatorship! This is FACT! The next one is WWII. It is a proven fact that besides many german industrialists Prescott Bush (Father of Bush Sen.) and Rockefeller have financed Hitler with a good chunk of money to expedite the development of german military machinery. Only BS?? Surely not! Go to any large public or academic library in your country and look for those infos! You'll be surprised what you'll find under your Freedom of Information Act. Of course this won't be debated in mass media and it's always only a small portion of people who know the truth which is oppressed. Btw, where you mention Hitler... let me take up the example of 9/11. People can accept that a politician could be taking bribes for services rendered because is lying on a human scale, if you like. But when the lie involves elements in their own government and military conspiring with outside forces to orchestrate the horrific attacks of September 11th it’s all too much to absorb. "They would never do that"... Well, ‘they’ would do that and are doing it almost daily. The Big Lie is one of their core techniques for mass manipulation of the global population. This is what Adolf Hitler wrote in his 1925 autobiography Mein Kampf:

In the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire toget her in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes.

And let's go further. This is precisely what we have seen since 9/11 and with other engineered ‘terrorist’ attacks like the London bombings. Alongside the Big Lie itself there needs to be the suppression of information that exposes the lie with the evidence of its deceit. Thus, Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi Propaganda Minister, wrote:

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Do we need to say more?

These mind and emotional manipulation techniques have been used throughout history to subjugate the people and bring them into line behind the mental and emotional retards who seek power and control as a mask for their own monumental fears and insecurity. Show me an ego and I'll show you a man or woman who is deeply insecure. One is just a mask for the other and the bigger the insecurity the bigger the mask necessary for camouflage. It can reach such a scale that it produces the Hitler’s, Himmlers, Stalins and Bushes, desperately frightened and insecure people hiding their little-boy vulnerabilities behind power over others.

The way the system is structured it brings the liars to the top. It has to because they are selling a cover-story to the people to hide the real agenda and their only option, therefore, is to lie. They can’t tell the truth – like ‘the forces controlling me were behind 9/11 because they wanted to frighten the people into giving their freedoms away.’ Or, ‘we are going to invade Iraq because it is part of a master plan to control the entire Middle East for the benefit of those who control me – we also want Iran, Syria and a list of others, too.’

Instead they LIE. They say that 19 Muslim terrorists did the impossible on 9/11 and so the war on terror was born – born of the BIG LIE. They invent ‘weapons of mass destruction’ for the excuse to invade Iraq knowing all along that they would not find them. Leaked British government documents have proved that the cover story for the Iraq invasion was a lie from the start and the same people who lied to us about that were the same people who have told us the official story of 9/11.

They lie all the time because they have to lie – the truth would out them in jail. Sorry to put emphasis on 9/11 but it's the best example to show you how you have been deceived and still are!

This is not you or anyone else to blame but the pre-shaped educational system in each country and the controlled mass media which holds off the truth, the truth you mustn't know else they wouldn't have power and influence anymore.

Arthur Schopenhauer, a german philosopher, once said about the truth:

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

To consider the other side of a story - truth always hurts and requires to change the world view which IS uncomfortable! - requires an open mind (think outside the box!) and the will to put down old belief patterns.

Originally Posted by Twicewise

OK, I’ve had enough,

It is not my practice to engage in flame wars, I’m a man of peace but I am sick and tired of Mickey constantly attacking the country that I love. Mickey there are a lot of us who not only support the effort of George Bush in his war against terrorism, but also believe that America has done a great service by spreading democracy and freedom to enslaved people all of the world.

If it hadn’t been for America Nazism would have conquered all of Europe. The death camps would have become a permanent part of the landscape. Jews, homosexuals, labor leaders, Christians and a whole host of other people would have been eradicated from the face of the earth. But the United States of America joined with other freedom loving nations all around the world to oppose Hitler and his bloody ambitions. Thank God for America – Europe is free because of it.

If it hadn’t been for America the Iron Curtain would never have fallen. East Germany, the Baltic States, and Russia would still be ruled by the dictatorial grip of Communism. Joseph Stalin murdered more than 20 million of his own people. The secret police reported directly to the KGB. Because of the policies of Ronald Reagan the Soviet Union was forced into an arms race that eventually bankrupted the entire nation. Russia is a free nation and a free people because of what America did.

If it hadn’t been for America, Bosnia would still be a dictatorship. If it hadn’t been for America Afghanistan would still be controlled by the Taliban. If it hadn’t been for America Saddam Hussein would still be free to practice genocide against his own people and to invade Kuwait. If it hadn’t been for America Osama Bin Laden would still be resting comfortably in his training camps of Afghanistan.

You should get down on your knees and thank God for the U.S.A. because the U.S.A. has stood up for freedom when no once else was able to. Freedom loving people all over the world have been willing to sacrifice the blood and treasure of their young men and women in order to liberate those who are held captive. Nations like Great Britain, Australia, Italy, Spain, Japan, Canada, Taiwan, South Korea, and others have been willing to join us so that the world may live in peace. They mourn the loss of their sons and daughters who were sent out in the cause of democracy and I don’t appreciate the fact that you are so willing to dismiss that ultimate sacrifice.

George Bush has done nothing but declare war on the terrorist who were willing to kill women and children in order to make a political statement. They attacked us, we did not attack them. We have sent billions of dollars to Muslim nations all over the world in order to strengthen their economies. We have helped build hospitals and to dig wells. What other nation would be willing to send out the amount of humanitarian aid that we have.

This forum has been nothing but a constant drumbeat of hatred against a great and noble people.

So here are some questions for you Mickey.

1. Have you ever been to America? Do you even know what you’re talking about when you talk about Americans?

2. What is your plan to protect the world from the spread of militant Islam?

3. If your plan is so good then I will set up an appointment for you with President Bush and the two of you can plan out together how you are going to protect America and the rest of the world.

4. Have you ever served in the military? Have you ever risked your life in order to rescue someone who is enslaved by a tyrannical ruler?

5. Have you ever spoken to an American soldier? Have you asked that soldier how they feel about risking their lives to rescue ungrateful people like you?

6. Has your country been attacked by terrorists, and did 3,000 of your countrymen die in one day.

7. If your plan isn’t to hunt down the terrorists and blast their sorry butts off of the face of the earth, then what is your plan? (Maybe you should volunteer to carry the peace flag to the terrorists, and hope that they won’t cut your head off for the effort. In fact, I nominate Mickey to carry the flag of peace right now, who agrees with me.)

8. If you don’t want to fight the terrorists in Iraq where do you want to fight them. We are killing terrorists in Iraq everyday. So if Iraq is where the terrorists are then that’s where the American military ought to be as well. Maybe we could send the terrorists to your country and the war could be fought street to street in your hometown. (Because that’s what you’re asking me to do. You’re saying that I should pull the troops out of Iraq and wait for them to show up in my hometown so that I can fight them here.)

9. Here’s the last question. Are you living in a nation that would not be free if it hadn’t been for America? Millions of people are, and a whole lot of them are grateful that America was willing to stand up and fight with them. (Maybe you should ask the people of Iraq whether they want Saddam back again. That would probably settle this argument once and for all.)


Don’t make me have to come back here again.

- TwiceWise

Politics:noun;the art of deception

Anybody want to impeach Brush and have Cheney take over the helm? Not me!

There is only one thing for you guys to do. Start winning elections. Start winning Senatorial and Congressional elections and then the Presidency. Then you can make policy and appoint judges. Until then, you are the loyal opposition, empowered to make noise and criticize, not to govern.

Where have you found that? Oxford Advanced English Dictionary? :lol: :-D

Originally Posted by rahly

Politics:noun;the art of deception

Holy crap!! Is this for real??

Sorry to tell you that you really have no clue at all what is happening behind the curtains of politics.

Why Mickey, I’m so glad that you know what’s really going on in Bosnia, 8,000 miles away from Washington, and that I have no clue even though I live in the United States. Exactly what is the source of your insider information? Since you know what is really going on then you must have multiple, high level informants inside the U.S. government. Oh wait, you don’t do you. You’re getting all of your information from radical, left wing websights like MoveOn.org, Democracy Now, and Air America. Well, with sources like that you must REALLY know what’s going on.

What write here reads like a transcript from CNN or FOX News, this really says enough...

Micky, if you actually knew what was going on then you would know that CNN and FOX have very different journalistic policies. CNN is mostly biased to the left, and focus primarily on liberal causes, whereas FOX is mostly biased to the right and focuses on conservative causes. (But let’s remember here that Micky knows what’s really going on.)

You are so fascinated and manipulated by your government that you are even not willing to consider anything else. A typical - stuck your head in the sand - authority syndrome, never question or criticize any authorities; starting from the parents, school teachers, college profs, preachers, doctors up to governments and large corporations who only want your very best.

Well Micky, I’ve got enough courage to challenge you. If you really knew as much as you pretend to know then you would realize that the American political system is an adversarial system. In other words it is built around the idea of aggressive and pointed challenges against those in power. I happen to agree with much of what this president says. I did not agree with very much that the former president, President Clinton had to say. I vigorously opposed his policies and believed that they were bad for America. So which is it? Was I a courageous freedom fighter back then, but I’m a “stuck in the sand” puppet now? If I choose to support a president I agree with then it’s none of your business. And by the way, there are areas where I disagree with this president. I disagree with his immigration policy. I disagree with his stand on CAFTA. I disagree with his ban on importing pharmaceuticals from other countries. You do know what CAFTA is don’t you Mickey? After all you’re the one who know what he is talking about.

You gave up critical thinking and with it you gave all your responsibilities away to a few others. Did you know that democracy means that the folk controls the powers to be? But how is it really? Approx. 600 people control 280 millions! Do you realize that? Likely not.

I see, you can tell that I gave up critical thinking because I made a post that disagrees with you. Personally I think I’m doing pretty good thinking critically right now. And by the way Micky, America isn’t a democracy it’s a Constitutional Republic. And in a Constitutional Republic the 280 million people elect someone to represent them in Congress. Those 600 congressmen are doing their best to represent the 600 that are sitting back home. If you had ever listened to the debate on the floor of the Senate then you would know that there is no consensus of opinion among American lawmakers. There are vigorous debates about what American policy should be. Usually the debates are between conservative lawmakers and liberal ones, but not always. Sometimes the debate is between those who want greater privacy rights in America against those who want more government rights. Or sometimes the debate is between those who want to restrict the amount of money in political campaigns against those who want to increase the amount of money in political campaigns. – The point is that it is through vigorous debate that American policy is hammered out.

Oh, but the 600 people you were talking about aren’t congressman are they Mickey. No, you’re talking about a secret shadow government who runs everything behind the scenes. Let’s see, who is it that’s playing the role of shadow government this week. Is it the Council on Foreign Relations, could it be the John Birch Society, maybe it’s the Skull and Bones club. I can’t keep track, there are so many shadow governments these days. (Now since you really know what’s going on I can only assume that you have informants on the insides of these shadow governments as well.)

BUT USA is the one which wants to control the world and dictates ALL countries worldwide what to do in ALL matters. If it were Russia or an other country then of course they were to blame.

You know Mickey, 15 years ago it was the Soviet Union in your part of the world. You might want to ask some of the people in your own country whether you would have had the right to speak out against the Soviet Government the way you are the American government. And by they way, America doesn’t want to control you dirt poor little country. Of course I can’t prove we don’t want to control your country, but my informants in the shadow government are telling me that we don’t. And I’m gullible enough to believe every word they say.

You mix something up here, buddy, deliberately or not, but I never ever said something against American People but against the US Government. These are two different pair of shoes, so don't twist my words or try to tell I hate US people which definitely is not true.

With all due respect Mickey, when you criticize the American government you are criticizing the American people. 56 million Americans voted for this president and your words are demening to every one of them. We did elect this government, and we do stand behind it.

About historical events I won't go into a rebuttal here as everything what you described is totally biased or falsified. I'll pick up only two of your examples here, Bosnia was NEVER ever a dictatorship!

Uhmm, could be that you were right. I had the idea that it was a pretty authoritarian regime. Isn’t that the whole reason why Slobodon Mislovitch was overthrown? But it’s your country and you probably know more about it than I do. You might notice here Mickey that I am not claiming to know more about your country than you do. Seems like you could pay me the same courtesy and admit that I might know more about my country than you know. (Of course, with all your secret sources of information inside the government maybe you really do know something I don’t know.)

The next one is WWII. It is a proven fact that besides many german industrialists Prescott Bush (Father of Bush Sen.) and Rockefeller have financed Hitler with a good chunk of money to expedite the development of german military machinery.

So what!!! What does that have to do with whether America liberated France, Britain and other European nations from Naziism? Big deal, Prescott Bush gave some money to Hitler. From what I’ve heard Prescott Bush was a pretty screwed up guy. But you say this like it actually proves something. Does Prescott Bush’s actions mean that America did not liberate Europe from the rise of Naziism? I said it before, and I’ll, say it again. If it hadn’t been for America then all of Europe would be speaking German right now, and that includes you Mickey.

But when the lie involves elements in their own government and military conspiring with outside forces to orchestrate the horrific attacks of September 11th it’s all too much to absorb.

Alright, that is absolutely enough of that. I don’t really give a rat’s rear end who you are or where you live. The American Government did not conspire with terrorists to create 911. That is the most slanderous, vile, contemptible thing that you have said yet. But of course you don’t have any real proof that anything like that happened. All you have is the rambling of America hating liars who have fabricated all manner of falsehood about people they hate. If you have one single scrap of evidence that something like that occurred then bring it forth now. If not, then crawl back under the rock you came from. How dare you make this kind of accusation with no proof whatsover.

And let's go further. This is precisely what we have seen since 9/11 and with other engineered ‘terrorist’ attacks like the London bombings.

Oh, I see that you won’t be welcome in London anymore either. So I guess that Tony Blair and George Bush got together to kill innocent people in London. Exactly what is your evidence that this happened? But in your little make believe world you don’t really need any evidence do you. (But remember Mickey knows what is really going on.)

And I see that you didn’t answer any of the questions I asked you, so let me post them again just in case you forgot what they were.

1. Have you ever been to America? Do you even know what you’re talking about when you talk about Americans?

2. What is your plan to protect the world from the spread of militant Islam?

3. If your plan is so good then I will set up an appointment for you with President Bush and the two of you can plan out together how you are going to protect America and the rest of the world.

4. Have you ever served in the military? Have you ever risked your life in order to rescue someone who is enslaved by a tyrannical ruler?

5. Have you ever spoken to an American soldier? Have you asked that soldier how they feel about risking their lives to rescue ungrateful people like you?

6. Has your country been attacked by terrorists, and did 3,000 of your countrymen die in one day.

7. If your plan isn’t to hunt down the terrorists and blast their sorry butts off of the face of the earth, then what is your plan? (Maybe you should volunteer to carry the peace flag to the terrorists, and hope that they won’t cut your head off for the effort. In fact, I nominate Mickey to carry the flag of peace right now, who agrees with me.)

8. If you don’t want to fight the terrorists in Iraq where do you want to fight them. We are killing terrorists in Iraq everyday. So if Iraq is where the terrorists are then that’s where the American military ought to be as well. Maybe we could send the terrorists to your country and the war could be fought street to street in your hometown. (Because that’s what you’re asking me to do. You’re saying that I should pull the troops out of Iraq and wait for them to show up in my hometown so that I can fight them here.)

9. Here’s the last question. Are you living in a nation that would not be free if it hadn’t been for America? Millions of people are, and a whole lot of them are grateful that America was willing to stand up and fight with them. (Maybe you should ask the people of Iraq whether they want Saddam back again. That would probably settle this argument once and for all.)

And, you know Mickey, I apologize in advance for being so forceful in this reply. You probably really aren't too bad of a guy, you've just believed the lies that other people are telling you. But you know, when you accuse my country of being the master minds behind the worst terrorist attack in American history, then it raises my ire just a little. (You really shouldn't post fighting words unless you want to get into a fight.)

This is a notice, you will not be allowed to **** your vile filth here without being opposed. Your conspiracy lunacy simply is not welcome anymore. In fact, I'm hoping that the Mods will close down this forum. What do these kinds of fanciful conspiracy theories have to do with financial investment anyway?

- TwiceWise

I see, every further discussion with you is only a waste of time and energy, will lead us both to nowhere. It would be the same as Galilei repeatedly speaking in front of the flat-earth society.

TO MICKEY:

GOOD REPORTING> and good judgement not to keep engaging with those who ARE THE "BUSHES ans CHENEYS" who SUPPORT "them"

I realized its not the hand full of powerful ones who are able to pull all this off..
Its the little people who are just like them in mind
and who dont mind watching innnocent people getting bombed up everyday,
so THEY TOO can share in the seeming WEALTH and POWER, that the big guys have.
Bottom line, there are plenty of 'BUSH supporters" in ideaology...

IM afraid it looks more and more like a fight for the very peace of the planet.
I still say,
all you "Bush Supporters leave earth, stop killing it,
and go to a planet where you can fight and kill and maim, and poison each other, all you want, with WILLING participants.
Lots of people LOVE to be INJURED, you see this all the time on American TV. [boxing, and the like}. And love VIOLENCE. So be it .. GO!!!

OK so go for it ELSEWHERE and leave the rest of us alone.
Thats what i wish

PS. I myself am still doing these dreadful things as well, in my personal life, such as, using gasoline, killing things I dont like, etc...]

Great post, Mickey. Unfortunately it is going to take more time for the masses to wake up and understand WHO owns the TV stations, WHO owns the newspapers and WHO owns the radio stations (indeed, even Public Radio now). Hopefully, the integrity level of the mass consciousness will continue to rise and the awakening will happen sooner rather than later.

But it WILL happen becuase the pendulum swings in both ways. And when the masses do awaken - they will be mad as hell.

Oh yes, good analogy with the pendulum! It happens every ~13,000 years and now the pendulum starts to swing back ;-)

Originally Posted by piccologal

But it WILL happen becuase the pendulum swings in both ways. And when the masses do awaken - they will be mad as hell.