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I borrowed this from another forum, as it seems it is rather exemplary of what has been going on with PIPS, here and in other forums
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THE FINE LINE BETWEEN PROGRAM SUPPORT AND A CULT-LIKE MENTALITY
An article about cult like activity in the HYIP arena.
Members often engage in group like activity using each other to calm their real fears. Support groups can be a great way to ease your fear, but can also be the downfall for good investors, if taken to the next level. Sure, it’s fine to engage in positive discussion of a program with a group of investors who share your dreams and beliefs. The problem arises when the line between friendly discussion about a particular programs ability to make one wealthy, and a cult like following of a Program admins’ every move, gets crossed.
One needs to understand that HYIPs are extremely risky. Members need to understand that any program can collapse at any time. When this happens, those members who had expected the collapse and know deep down that a collapse is imminent are the ones who walk away relatively unscathed. Those members who have not confronted the fear of a program's eventual collapse, and have engaged in cult like behavior, are those who may have some serious mental, financial, and perhaps health problems. We have seen time and time again the cycle a typical HYIP cult member will go through:
Initial Cult like behavior:
Where ones own dreams become that of the group. They fail to see reality for what it’s worth only because the people around them share the same perceptions. The group mentality all merges into one way of thinking. They follow every word of the admin and fail to even consider the possibility that he/she may not be 100% honest. If anyone even slightly suggests that something is wrong, the group will quickly write them off as a stupid, ignorant person not understanding what the program is all about. A cult member will not even consider the possibility of the outsiders views being true, and there own way of thinking is continually reinforced by the group members.
Doubt Begins to set in, overrun by Denial:
Major problems begin to occur with the program. The group sticks together and will not allow each other to even consider the fact that they may have been scammed. After all, there are thousands of people in the program, all believing that the program is legit. How could 10,000 people all be wrong? [or in the case of PIPS, 200,000+) Outsiders may bring up very good points about the program and how it is falling apart, but the denial reinforced by Cult like attributes will force the group members to continue to bash, criticize and even threaten any outsider who wants to change their views.
It all Comes Crashing down:
Now the program is all but gone. Maybe the admin has been arrested or the website has been gone for weeks. The strongest of the group members still believe that the program will be back, will give them the cash that was promised to them, and will allow them to reach their dreams. The weaker group members will realize that they have been taken, some may not be able to face the fact that they had been conned, and scammed out of thousands of dollars. We have seen these members in rare cases actually commit suicide. The stronger members tied up in the cult mentality will eventually follow the paths of the weaker group members. Some will take years if not a lifetime to recover, others may take their lives, and some will get back to life fairly quickly.
It is up to you as an investor to make sure you think as an individual, and not get tied up in anything resembling a cult, or group thinking. This will hurt you in the long run.
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My point in posting this is not to cast aspersions or point fingers, rather, to address what I consider to have been an alarming phenomenon going on in this forum over the past year -- there have been more bannings and shiftings of the "tides of belief" than there were beheadings in the French Revolution!
The fact is, this stuff happens, and to honest people and to intelligent people. Kinda like divorce or cancer, people think "oh, that could never happen to me" and when it does, it may seem like the end of the world for awhile; but it can be overcome and life does go on.
One other point: to me it shows that the ones who were the most strident about "the dream" and the most predatory against "naysayers" are the ones who were most affected by this affliction; for me it is hard to have compassion for them but in fact these "stronger members" are the ones in need of the most help.
Excuse me for mentioning the unmentionable, but I thought something outta be said on the subject. Yes, it's time for the members to face themselves.....
And this article describes exactly what happened to PIPS!
I can remember that in 2003 I critisized my PI(PS) country members on our language forum for their cult behavour and their naive and sick attitude for the Genie master Marsden.
I was immediately attacked and told that I would be banned if I ever tried to question the program and master Marsden himself. I was also asked to call the country manager (cheerleader) on the phone to discuss my behavour. I did, and I asked him how old he was and I also asked him how much experience he had in International financial investments. He obviously was a child (no life experience) and had no clue what I was talking about.
I bluntly told him that the program was questionable and asked him to grow up and get real!....
Well, the rest is history!...except that the Genie is hopefully being kept in the bottle!
hine, thank you for the response. (phew!) yes, vindication is one thing, and sweet, no doubt, for many of the formerly villified "naysayers," and there has been plenty of rejoycing. But that was not my aim in bringing up this subject.
Picking up on another part of your post, regarding folks being "sick" -- I prefer to think of it not in the sense of "twisted," as many might choose (and it is not hard to do, for some of the behavior was absolutely atrocious!) but rather as a kind of "illness."
I believe we are all struck by this in little or big ways at one time or another in our lives -- it really is just a dark side of "conformity" which is a somewhat necessary aspect of social cohesion. A Google of "cult mentality" turns up many professional treaties on the subject.
When someone is on the inside of a group in this condition, those on the outside "just don't get it" and are simply not as "evolved" as those on the inside. True, dreams do become manifest, but when one becomes fixated on a person and loses sight of their "own" dream-reality and "buys in" to another, that's when the danger sets in.
Being mean spirited and awful to others becomes justified as the center of attention is perceived as being "under attack." As he/she is the source of all that is true, even if that person is not all wonderful but actually quite the opposite (another subject: power corrupting the mighty) the mind lashes out to protect that source, for if it falls then the unraveling begins and that is the most difficult time.
It is very hard to just "jump" easily and/or gracefully from being inside to being "back in the real world." That's why it's not surprising in a way that the main "ringleaders" on this forum went from being the "powers that be" to personna non grata in a big hurry.
The good news is, out there in the "real world" -- that formerly less evolved place of unenlightened souls -- there is usually a friendly face or helping hand to help the re-entry.
I am not here to harp on this subject, nor am I trying to "save" anyone; just passing along something that might resonate with people and therefore be useful.
Soulsurfer - that's a very interesting post. It's a subject that has exercised my mind ever since I became interested in the phenomenon that was Pips.
I still reprise many of the earlier postings (especially those that were not only critical of myself but were, in fact, defamatory!). Mostly this is a sad exercise in the inability of many to come to grips with reality. Commonsense flies out the window and is frequently re-placed with abuse at those who might view things more objectively.
It has been proposed that I write a further book, this time on the more general aspects of the fraudulent online investment business and this cult philosophy will be, of course, a prominent part.
Might want to pick up a book if you can find it, "Victims of Grouptink" by Irving Janis. Also the various treatises on "cognitive dissonance" shine some light on what happens to people.
It was equally difficult for us when RC stepped in...which side or what justification has it to become yet another disobeying group to contain a swelling need to exercise the right for recognition and seeking to gap a deliberate communication breakdown....
But back then, I had, just prior to Hawaii's Convention, made up my own mind about the fiasco that will someday unravel the foolish swaying of the blinded pipsters led by a greater influence of outspoken cheerleaders...
I came into ROLClub just to see how to break the ice and dilemma surfacing across the platform.... was even on the point of being thrown out, banned perhaps by Marek due to popular dissent of my postings on all issues available.... those were the days... still vivid in me.
As I see it... we all want to be treated fair and respected for our right to views and opinions. It doesn't matter whether one is knowing more or less than the other...that is what the Forum is about too, to exchange and learn more and hopefully, get to know more persons you can admire and give where respect is due.
The argument of who is right or wrong is less a consequence.... it is more about resolving to any open subject worthy of discussion and with the hope of being enlightened from newer facts and workable suggestions that we may someday overcome the lack of ignorance with the power of knowledge as the true achievement on issues discussed among all parties involved.
What gives a person to accuse another who has an opposing mindset or perception as regards to the limited knowledge on the issues addressed? Who is actually a positive person? The one that says, U R a troller and a Naysayer because it does not fit your beliefs and rationale thinking? What makes you think U R rationale in the first place?
We came across the likes of either in this ROLClub Forum for the many months we held our grounds.... annd treat this PIPs saga as another event, soon to be a passover... and we got to chin up and be prepared to move on... but for some, and a choice they make, they either NEVER wake up, eyes still wide and shut and will always be unable to accept defeat even when it runs them down...flat across their face and hide with public facts spread across the media.
Is that cult mentality here too? I would consider these as plain dumb and utterly ignorant and perhaps a failure both to themselves as to those around them.
Many thanks, Whatever, I'll see if i can get a copy. I did use some research from a book (whose name I can't recall at the minute) that was published in Australia on various cultist movements there. It is an interesting (to me) phenomenon since I still find it unbelievable that, in the light of the litany of untruths told by Bryan Marsden (and one only has to research his postings to see this), there are still those who blindly support him.
Many thanks, Whatever, I'll see if i can get a copy. I did use some research from a book (whose name I can't recall at the minute) that was published in Australia on various cultist movements there. It is an interesting (to me) phenomenon since I still find it unbelievable that, in the light of the litany of untruths told by Bryan Marsden (and one only has to research his postings to see this), there are still those who blindly support him.
I hope you find Janis's book..I found it fascinating because it really is about how bright, shrewd leaders could be taken in by stupid/patchwork/nonsensical plans as was JFK and advisors the Bay of Pigs fiasco..There are many examples in his book, but what struck me was the kind of psychological contagion, similar to social conformity phenomena in smaller groups, that seems to interfere with just plain reality and common sense. It is (to these people) the "we" feelings of solidarity and the constant concurrance-seeking behaviour (and the absolute villification of anyone with non-conforming questions or comments) that we saw here on a daily basis that eroded their sense of good judgement. Again, IMHO, from what I witnessed.
Soulsurfer - that's a very interesting post. It's a subject that has exercised my mind ever since I became interested in the phenomenon that was Pips.
I still reprise many of the earlier postings (especially those that were not only critical of myself but were, in fact, defamatory!). Mostly this is a sad exercise in the inability of many to come to grips with reality. Commonsense flies out the window and is frequently re-placed with abuse at those who might view things more objectively.
Owen, as you know, you have (apparently willingly) become the lightning rod du jour for such abuses as of late. Perhaps you thought it was "safe" to return here, but even someone just stating simple, useful facts and opinions, based on experience, is enough to bring out fresh venom. Such lowlife, immature histrionics... but I know it doesn't bother you!
You might think that after seeing Marsden in cuffs that most people would "see the light." Not so! Of course everybody is entitled to their day in court. But on the other hand, for the "yeasayers," the trial has simply become the new line of defense, the new stop-thinking-postpone-it-'til-later point.
You remember that at first people wouldn't even acknowlege that Bryan had been arrested or that the bank had shut down the company last year. It was suggested that he "invited" the bank over and that everything was A-OK. But when that didn't fly, the investigation became the perfect crutch for the ostrich heads, i.e. "we can't do anything or think anything bad until the results of the investigation." If people always must wait for others to decide what is true for them, they will never learn and likely be manipulated again and again.
Fortunately there are/were enough people not afraid to call a spade a spade who were willing to go to BNM with the initial complaint.
As to your possible book, it would be quite an interesting subject to explore, perhaps a bit tricky, but of course, from a marketing point of view, rife with sensational stories. I know of one: the leader of a certain sect was sued for sexual harassment of a female secretary who held a high administrative position in the organzation. Members were stunned when the case was quickly settled for $250,000. Later, when members were asked what they would think if they were shown a video showing the leader engaging in rather explicit orgies (something that was verboten in the group, but apparently such a video had been secretly recorded) quite a number of them said they could only believe it was a fabrication.
Even if/when Marsden is convicted, long after that -- or perhaps forever -- some will think the case was fabricated against him "to keep the common man down." Very sad.
Last edited by SoulSurfer; 14-09-2006 at 04:37 PM.
You're quite right - it doesn't bother me. And the abusive ones are in a minority anyway - many others are prepared to discuss the matter rationally.
I've had the proposed book in mind for some time, ever since I got involved with the First International Bank of Grenada swindle where there was a smaller but similar cult following involved.
The tragedy is that many who are not "cultist" become swept up in the undertow and become involved, based upon the hysterical support of the cheerleaders and their crusade "on behalf of the little man."
Cult mentality & HYIPs: it could happen to anyone
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